Hurricane - Test Mix

Your Mom loves your mixes, but are they really up to scratch? Post your tracks here and get the community's feedback to help with the spit and polish. Impress us! We don't bite.
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rammer24
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by rammer24 »

Ok. :coolstorybro:
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einstein magoo
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by einstein magoo »

Good song. I like the lyric, and it all fits together nicely. No mix comments.

Is that your Hammond peeping through around 1:57? Don't remember if you had a M-3 or if it was an L-100 series. Through the years I have owned both, gave the L-121 to Mom and she gave it away later to my nephew dammit! I gave the M-3 to a friend in Nashville when I moved about 11 years ago. I only ever recorded these by micing the speaker. Micing the M-3 was tough cause the speaker was between my knees and there was also a bit of a rumble down there from the tone wheels / motor. Whatever, yours sounds pretty clean. I think its way in the background throughout, but rises up in that one spot? Got a Leslie?
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Thanks!

I have an updated mix I will be posting later today. I took all the comments, and then gave the mix a fresh listen yesterday, and reworked it a bit.
Yes...that's my Hammond L. :)
When I first got it I realized that miking it between my legs was a PITA...so a bought a small 212 cab, and go a set of identical speakers from an L someone parted out...and then I put the cab to the side of the organ, and mic it that way.
Now I'm also messing around with a DI setup from the organ, which I can do either with a Weber Mini-Mass attenuator that has a Line Out, or I can use a Radial JDX box to generate mic level output to a peamp.
That said, on this song, I miked the external cab with a Senn 609. I usually go with a Fat Head ribbon positioned between the speakers about 8"-12" away, but I wanted to give the Senn 609 something to do, as they don't get a ton of use. I just stuck it in front of the left speaker (they are not identical, as you probably know).
Anyway, on this current remix that I will post...I've added some clarity to the organ track, as well as other tracks...so I think the organ peaks through a bit more...but this being a guitar-heavy tune, it's there mainly to add foundation.

NO...no Leslie, though I've looked a lot of times to snag one near to me, that was the right match for the L.
Most times I just use the on-board Vibrato options. If I push down both Vibrato switches plus the Chorus...it's a pretty decent sound, but it's one steady effect...no option for swells, etc.
I've got a Pigtronix Rototron that I have tried with the L, and it sounds good, a lot more options...but I've not used it yet on a track.
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ocnor
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by ocnor »

The mix sounds pretty solid to me. A little bit of delay on the lead guitar parts would really help. The vocal sits a little too far front and needs a hint more reverb to push it back slightly. You could also use some reverb on the main bus to tie everything together.
Another toy that helped destroy the elder race of man..forget about your silly whim it doesn't fit the plan.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Thanks!

OK...so I considered all of the comments along with some things I didn't like, and here's the reworked mix I did this weekend.
I included the previous version too...so you don't have to jump back to page one if you want to compare them.

In a nutshell...I added some clarity to the vocals, guitars, and the whole mix in general...made some level balance adjustments, and a couple of edits.
After hearing the mix 800 times...I can't tell right now if I went too far, not enough or just right with everything/anything. I have to give my ears a rest...so you guys will probably be able to tell before me when you hear the reworked mix.


"Hurricane" - Test Mix (previous version)

"Hurricane" - Test Mix (current version)
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vomitHatSteve
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by vomitHatSteve »

Man. Those crashes are still rattling super-wierdly. It's probably how you have them miced.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

I don't know what "super-weirdly" means...there's nothing unusual processing wise, other than I raised their level back up a bit, and add some clarity that wasn't there before...but I had them soloed when I was checking them, and they may not sound spectacular tone-wise, but I'm not hearing any "rattling". They're just how the OH mics picked them up.

Maybe I should just fade them out faster and remove the longer tails.
I'll listen to them again in the studio and see if I can hear what you're talking about....but there's no re-recording them...so I can EQ them some more, make them softer, louder, or fade them out quicker...but that's about it.
Personally...I don't really need them as loud as they are...but I figured that would bring back some of the body instead of just the "whish", which is how they were before.

Does anyone else here this "rattling"...?

Now....besides the cymbals...? :)
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Now that I'm thinking about the cymbals...I'm wondering if it's the bleed from the other kit mics...and any time-alignment issues, being accentuated by the added clarification (basically top-end lift) processing....???
I'm going to sit and solo all the drum tracks together VS focusing on just the cymbals....maybe that will reveal it...but I'm still not quite sure how you mean "rattling".
I'm understanding that to mean in the initial attack/body, and I've heard cymbals that will do that when struck hard or funny. I'm not hearing that.
If you mean in the tails...that's something that might be related to what I mentioned above about the bleed/time-alignment/processing/ between tracks.

Anyway...would like to hear a couple of more folks chime in...so I'm not chasing ghosts. ;)
Not that I don't believe you, but everyone hears a little differently and has different focus on different frequencies/elements.
I tend to be rather bothered by the highs...which is why I've always mixed on the dark side...and something I'm now trying to get away from.
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ocnor
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by ocnor »

To me it sounds like the cymbals are a little over compressed. Just lower the cymbal level a bit and it should be fine. My issue is with the vocal track. It sounds like it's right in your face. It's sitting on top of the mix and sounds too separated from the rest of the tracks. Also the feedback guitar is a little toppy and should be pushed back in the mix a little.
Another toy that helped destroy the elder race of man..forget about your silly whim it doesn't fit the plan.
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paulman
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by paulman »

I think the overall mix is good. My only issues are the EQ on the vocal and guitar solo. They're both too dark to me, even with the added clarity in the new mix. With your deep voice, you need to either accentuate the higher frequencies or cut the lower ones. Or maybe do an artificial double-track and make the copy really crisp, and turn it down low. I'm not sure which of those ideas would work in this instance, but that's where I'd start. I think if you brightened up the vocal and lead guitar and left everything else the way it is the mix would be well-rounded with dark and light elements.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

I did raise the cymbal level substantially in this last mix....maybe too much.
I also don't know why I said there's no processing on them other than some upper-end lift...DUH!
I've got them going through the same drum sub-group on my console to a racked comp that I kinda set and forgot. :facepalm:
That could be the "rattle" Steve is hearing...the compressor is fucking with their decay.

My hybrid tracking and mix setup can be a bit of a juggling act at times...:D...but it's my choice, so I'm not complaining, just saying that I've got basically a dual mixing scenario. There's the mixer in the DAW, where I'm doing all kinds of processing...and then I'm bringing that out to the console, and I'm also processing there and with outboard gear.

AFA the vocals needing more reverb...I started out with more, then went drier...trying to be more "modern". :)
Considering some have said the vocals needed some more clarity/definition, I'm concerned that adding more reverb to the vocals will diffuse them, with all the rhythm guitars going on.
I also thought the feedback guitars had a bit too much "bite" after the HF "lift" I added...I can pull that back.

TBH...I think I'm at the "just kiss it" mixing phase, where it's a lot of subjective, small moves, nothing dramatic...but that cymbal thing I will take a close look at now that I realize what may be the cause.

So like...the other day I pulled a half-dozen commercial CDs out just to sort of "cleanse my palate", and give me ears a tweak after hearing my own mix 800 times...and it was interesting how when comparing them to each other, and to my own mix...there were no two that were the same.
I mean, I heard drums that sounded muted cardboard and drums that were hurting my ears from their upper-end pop. Wet vocals, dry vocals, loud, soft...etc..etc...etc....but you know, overall the songs all sounded good when I just stepped back and listened and put away the audio "microscope".
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

paulman wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:17 pm...the EQ on the vocal and guitar solo. They're both too dark to me, even with the added clarity in the new mix.
Damn...and I thought I was already over the line! :P

One thing though...the vocal, especially in the verses, was/is meant to be kinda of "dark".
I actually separated the verses from the choruses, and made the choruses a "bit" more edgy since the whole dynamic of the mix gets a lot louder there, so they would punch through.

But you say still too dark... :cool: ...OK, I'll give them some more consideration.
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paulman
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by paulman »

Well, take what I say about clarity with a grain of salt. I tend to make my stuff too harsh in the quest for warm clarity. It's something I'm working on. I'm listening again, and it's really not far off. It just seems that the vocal needs a little sparkle to keep it from blending in with its surroundings. Just a little. But that's my preference. I like my vocals to be big and bold, but some like them less up front.
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Greg_L
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Greg_L »

The new mix is an improvement but not by much. The vocals are still dark and murky and seem crazy hot in the mix. That's what's so unsettling about the vocals. They're dark and thick and murky but still way on top of everything.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

"crazy hot"...?...now, compared to the last mix?
I know the whole mix is hotter (me just fucking around with some pseudo-mastering shit)...but I didn't think the vocals were that much hotter than anything else.

AFA the "dark"...OK, I guess if that's how everyone is hearing them, I will ignore my own lean in that direction, and increase the top-end more. :)
I can brighten them more, for sure, and also pull them back too. *shrug*
I thought that I raised the instruments a good amount from the last mix...but I didn't raise the vocals, I just add some top-end lift.

Speaking of "dark"...as I was saying in the previous post...one of the CD's I put on was some Lenny Kravitz, and I was amazed at how dark, dull and subdued his drums were onmost of his tracks. I know his stuff may already be "dated" compared to current trends, but It certainly redefined for me what I considered "dark". :D
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Greg_L
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Greg_L »

Increasing the top end won't undo the muck in the lower mids in the vocal track. I don't know if it's compression or your mic or whatever, but the vocals just seem very squashed and hot and thick and they have no air or sibilance. It sounds like you sang the vocals while eating the mic - like proximity effect gone crazy. And they ride on top of the mix. That's just how it is. The underlying music bed seems better. The cymbals are meh, but whatever. It's the vocals killing it for me. Maybe a re-track is in order.
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ocnor
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by ocnor »

miroslav wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:21 pmAFA the vocals needing more reverb...I started out with more, then went drier...trying to be more "modern". :)
Considering some have said the vocals needed some more clarity/definition, I'm concerned that adding more reverb to the vocals will diffuse them, with all the rhythm guitars going on.
More modern? Dude your song sounds like something from 1973.(which is a good thing IMO) As long as you use enough pre delay and a reasonable decay time, adding reverb won't smear the vocals. You just need a small amount of room verb to create a space for the vocal track just forward of the rhythm guitars.
Another toy that helped destroy the elder race of man..forget about your silly whim it doesn't fit the plan.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Well...are we talking song style...or vocal mix? :D
Reverb was big back in the day...these days everything I hear is like the Sahara when it comes to vocals.

There's is already more than "a small amount" of reverb on them. I just think it's not as evident due to the rest of the mix elements, the multiple L/R guitar tracks tend to suck up the image space.
I can certainly bring up the reverb level as I said...I'll just have to see how I can bring them forward of the guitars while at the same time not having them on top of the mix, as others have said.
Greg_L wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:15 pm Increasing the top end won't undo the muck in the lower mids in the vocal track. I don't know if it's compression or your mic or whatever, but the vocals just seem very squashed and hot and thick and they have no air or sibilance. It sounds like you sang the vocals while eating the mic - like proximity effect gone crazy. And they ride on top of the mix. That's just how it is. The underlying music bed seems better. The cymbals are meh, but whatever. It's the vocals killing it for me. Maybe a re-track is in order.
Well...I left all the stuff I had going on previously, and opted to simply add some top-end.
It's definitely not the tracking or proximity thing. I never get closer than 4-6" of the capsule.
So I'll reexamine the vocal tracks and do what I originally planned, pull out the compression.
I just thought I would give the upper-end "clarification" option a shot before going deeper into the vocal tracks.
As I mentioned...there are two sets of vocal tracks, both compressed...etc. It was something new I tried.
I guess it just ain't working. :lollers2:

I appreciate the input...I've got some new shit in the studio with the monitors a few months back and this added trapping, and I won't deny that everything sounds different, so this is where I hopefully dial it in. :)
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Greg_L
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Greg_L »

miroslav wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:58 pm

Well...I left all the stuff I had going on previously, and opted to simply add some top-end.
It's definitely not the tracking or proximity thing. I never get closer than 4-6" of the capsule.
So I'll reexamine the vocal tracks and do what I originally planned, pull out the compression.
I just thought I would give the upper-end "clarification" option a shot before going deeper into the vocal tracks.
As I mentioned...there are two sets of vocal tracks, both compressed...etc. It was something new I tried.
I guess it just ain't working. :lollers2:

I appreciate the input...I've got some new shit in the studio with the monitors a few months back and this added trapping, and I won't deny that everything sounds different, so this is where I hopefully dial it in. :)
Hey you try things and you learn things. :coolstorybro:

I'm not anti-compression. I compress the bujeezus out of my vocals. But my tracks - for whatever reason - don't end up like this. So yeah, maybe go back to the drawing board on the vocals and keep em clear. Compress in a way that maintains the breath and air and clarity.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Greg_L wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:25 pm ...the breath and air and clarity.
Yeah...I need to first remove all the compression and track doubling shit...and recheck the frequency balance of the vocals before anything else.

I do try to cut some of the mud zone of my vocals, simply knowing that my deeper voice can be a bitch in that area when layered with a lot of other tracks. I think maybe on this track I might have also de-essed a bit too aggressive to try and take out a pesky nasal buzz that sometimes shows up when my sinuses are not happy. I think maybe I did that on this track...but I tracked the vocals awhile back, so hard to remember.

Hey...if I gotta break out the mic and redo the vocals, it's not gonna cost me any sleep, there's no clock running on these sessions....:D ...but I'm going to first look at what I have going on with the compression. It might simpler than a retrack.
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