Hurricane - Test Mix

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miroslav
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Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Here's a song I'm just finishing up, and after hearing it like a thousand times, I'm not sure if I've lost perspective. I think I'll let it sit for a few days and then hear it again over the weekend to see if anything needs to be tweaked.
Mostly its the overall balance of the song's tone that I need some feedback on. I'm not sure if it's a little bright, bassy or if there's anything sticking out.

I've been trying to mix with a little less "darkness", which is how I use to in the past...and I'm trying to go with a bit more of that mid-upper edge that much of current commercial stuff seems to have these days, but I don't want it too edgy or bright.
I still want the low end to be present and fat...though I'm also looking for a more "neutral" mix balance, so that it's easy to fine tune on most systems. IOW, let the listener easily beef up the lows or brighten up the top, without mucking up the sound of the mix or struggling with it.

I find that if I make it too fat for my taste or too bright (though I'm not into bright all that much)...when you try and adjust that on other systems, it can fight you, compared to when it's a more balanced, neutral-ish mix.
Anyway...my ears are shot after this weekend, so I'm not sure how far off the mark I am...plus, with the addition of all those big bass traps I made...it changed things a bit in the studio...so this is the first mix after doing that.

Here's the test clip, with just a basic "mastering" preset to punch it up. I have yet to focus on final mastering shit, which I'll do when all my mixes are done. OK...I'll STFU now.

"Hurricane" - Test Mix (previous version)

"Hurricane" - Test Mix (current version)

:jam:
Last edited by miroslav on Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Greg_L
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Greg_L »

Nice use of feedback. The music bed of the mix seems okay to me. Guitars, bass, drums all sound pretty good. You could do something with the cymbals. They're kind of sounding generic and obviously canned. A little more spread on the drums would help make it sound more "modern" too. Not much spread, just a little more. The guitars could maybe use just a hair more top end.

To me, the weak point is the vocal processing. The vocals do sound dark. Your voice is naturally deep and bassy, so you can't do nuthin about that. You kind of sound like Iggy when he lays back a little. But it's placement in the mix and processing can be addressed. I think the vocals need more "breath", more air. They could actually use some sibilance. Your S's and hard consonants are mostly MIA. That makes the vocals sound very dull. Something is making the entire vocal track come across as very thick and lacking dynamics, and the whole thing sot of sits like a heavy blanket on top of the mix. I don't know if it's your EQ or compression or mic and pre. But lightening up on whatever is going on with the vocals will help it all sound cleaner and clearer IMO.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Thanks for all the comments.

I was afraid the guitars would be too bright/edgy...but I was at one point thinking of adding some more top to them because I didn't think they were cutting/edgy enough.

Funny...I actually reduced the spread of the drum kit in an effort to be more "modern"...with that centered drum sound. :D
If I remove that, they were spread wider...which is how I used to do them usually.
The cymbals I pulled back...they were annoying me...but also because there's a lot of shit going on, and I didn't want them on top of everything. Maybe I pulled them back too much...so you don't hear the different cymbal tones...just the "whishhh".

I've been trying out a lot of different things with this mix from what I might have usually done.

Same with the vocals, I tried something different...and ended up splitting into two tracks, and then treating each with a different amount of compression (one more, one less, and then combining them...plus a bit different on the verses from the choruses.
It's something I've not done before...mostly just wanted to fuck around and see what would happen...but also thought about just going with a single vocal track, and less processing, more the way I usually did it. It was just an experiment with some comp plugs and layering.
That said, I don't have a lot of "breath" or sibilance in general. I mean, I could probably perk up the 5k-8k range a bit...though I'm not sure if it will sound weird on my naturally darker voice. I would have to sing it more with just head voice, and not allow too much of the chest tone. I've done that on a couple of tunes in the past...but it's not a natural thing.

I'll be rechecking the whole mix this weekend...TBH, I got so side-tracked with those bass traps, and I put this mix aside for like 3 weeks, and this weekend I finally got back to it, and kinda lost my perspective due to the break.
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Greg_L
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Greg_L »

miroslav wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:58 pm

Same with the vocals, I tried something different...and ended up splitting into two tracks, and then treating each with a different amount of compression (one more, one less, and then combining them...plus a bit different on the verses from the choruses.
It's something I've not done before...mostly just wanted to fuck around and see what would happen...but also thought about just going with a single vocal track, and less processing, more the way I usually did it. It was just an experiment with some comp plugs and layering.
That said, I don't have a lot of "breath" or sibilance in general. I mean, I could probably perk up the 5k-8k range a bit...though I'm not sure if it will sound weird on my naturally darker voice. I would have to sing it more with just head voice, and not allow too much of the chest tone. I've done that on a couple of tunes in the past...but it's not a natural thing.

I was just thinking something like this:

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bLOjmY--TA[/BBvideo]

I mentioned you sort of sounding like Iggy, and that song is a prime example of Iggy's deep laid back voice sitting in a mix with tons of clarity. He sounds deep and powerful but you can hear every sound and syllable clearly. I think if you can get your vocals sitting like that you'd be in damn good shape for this mix. :coolstorybro:
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

I like that Iggy song...not his usual kind of stuff, but good tune. :coolstorybro:

See, the big difference is that his mix is so freakin' sparse, and that it allows Iggy's voice to sit in there real easy.
I'm aware that some of my productions tend to get too dense with lots of shit going on, lots of instruments (this current mix has like 6 guitar tracks, all double tracked). I was wondering about just pulling some of them out early on when I started the mixing.

I keep wanting to thin out the productions, because I know it's a lot easier for any kind of vocals when the mix is not too dense, but especially for the lower tone vocals, like mine....then I get carried away and record 8 more tracks. :D :facepalm:

I also notice that Iggy's voice has more top end...I mean, it was possibly accentuated in the mix or a brighter mic was used...so even though he's got the low voice, there's that upper edge that makes it stick out.
I can certainly brighten up my vocal track...I don't think it would take much to get a bit more articulation in there.

Thanks again...and I can see what your suggesting here, and how it would help. I'll just think about which way to get there...thin out the mix or just rework the vocal processing...or maybe a bit of both.
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Greg_L
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Greg_L »

Obviously Iggy has the best of everything at his disposal if he wants it. I just think if you're looking for a good reference comparison for your vocal style, his recordings could give you some ideas. His new album Post Pop Depression has some thick complex mixes that work.
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Lt. Bob
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Lt. Bob »

first off, I like the song and performance ... very nice.
I find the mix overall and the vox in particular lack 'sparkle' ..... they don't need to be mixed brighter really .... just add a couple db at around 8-10k .... nice test mix though.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Thanks, I'm always concerned about too bright...

...and yeah, Iggy would be a good vocal tone for me to work off of. :coolstorybro:
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Oh...in case it makes it easier to comment on the rest of mix, but without vocals...here's the exact same one as the above, sans vocals.
I mean, if the darkness of the vocal is masking the rest of the mix.
I'll deal with getting the vocals in order.

Hurricane - Test Mix - No Vox
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Greg_L
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Greg_L »

miroslav wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:30 pm Oh...in case it makes it easier to comment on the rest of mix, but without vocals...here's the exact same one as the above, sans vocals.
I mean, if the darkness of the vocal is masking the rest of the mix.
I'll deal with getting the vocals in order.

Hurricane - Test Mix - No Vox
It's a little dark. Not excessively so, but a little shine across the whole thing wouldn't hurt. I think if just the vocals were cleaned up the music bed as-is would pass just fine.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

OK...that's good. I used to do way dark in the past, and I've wanted to get away from that, but without the ear-spike.
So then I'm close to where it needs to be...and I think I just fucked around with the vocal track(s) too much...but it was an experiment, and I know now that's not working as well as if had left it as a single vocal track. Two layers of compressed vocals blended is probably what killed the presence.
I can try either toning down the compression, and see if the transients perk back up...or go back to the single track, with light processing.

Not making excuses...but the new monitors from a few months back, and then all these extra traps...and the tonal balance in the room has changed.
Not in a bad way, it's a lot tighter, but I noticed that the top end was up more in the room (which was kinda odd), plus these monitors have a very clear top end...and I think I just pulled back on the high end too much thinking it was over the top.
The monitors have high and low end +/- controls that I haven't fucked with yet...so I may just roll back the highs a notch or two, which will then force me to add more in the mixes to get some of that shine back.

Again...appreciate the comments...especially since I don't contribute regularly here...but now that I'm back at mixing more stuff, I'll feel justified in giving others feedback...except for Rami's stuff.
His shit always sounds the same...always good...but it's no big deal. :tongue:
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rammer24
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by rammer24 »

I can hear the reason for the Iggy comparisons. Very similar timbre. The vocals are hard to define. They lack sparkle for sure, but there's something else. Off the top of my head, it sounds sort of like you're singing into a dark mic (Sm7B) and pressing your lips up against it. So, it's like "Dark mic + maximum proximity effect". Not saying that's what you did, just my analogy of what I hear. I don't know if simply adding some high end would be enough. Seems like you got to find that frequency somewhere in the 225hz area, and turn it down. Maybe even a pretty wide Q, too.

Everything else sounds good to me. I don't know if I would have noticed the cymbals being a little fakey if it wasn't mentioned. But since I was listening for it, yeah. Not horrible, though. Just a bit sizzly.

I like the song. Just a personal arrangement opinion. I wouldn't have announced that piano line in the intro. I'd of left it until after the first vocal line. It's a great line to follow "I don't know myself any more". Total nit-pick, but I think it would be more effective only there. :)
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Naa...the mic is not the issue. It's a bigg-ass tube condenser that has very good presence. I know the raw vocal tracks, and they actually have a lot of crispness to them. I just fucked with them too much and just compressed the transients out of them experimenting with a new vocal track approach.

I think I also get too concerned about everything being too crispy...edgy/bright shit tends to be unusually annoying to my ears, so I probably over-compensate. I used to record my guitars way to dark...even had a time where I was putting those Weber Beam Blockers on all my speakers, because I felt there was too much spike in the high end. I also hardly every played the bridge pups, and was always doing both rhythm and lead on the neck pups...not to mention, the same reason I never got into single coils because they just seemed too bright.

However, I started to readjust my perspectives about the high end. I realized that it was just me, that it was my ears that were too sensitive to certain high frequencies, but in reality, the tonal balance was actually good like that. So sometimes when I'm editing and mixing, some of that "fear of too bright" creeps back into my thinking, and I tend to pull the highs back...which is what I initially was asking about this mix....is it too bright. :D

When I hear enough people telling me that I could put back some of the high end, I realize I went too far. :P
I'm sure I can fix the vocals pretty easily, which I will do this weekend...and same with the cymbals, I pulled them back too far, thinking they were getting in the way with their brightness.
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by vomitHatSteve »

I actually disagree with the folks saying the vox are too dark 80% of the time. It's only really pronounced on the 1st and 3rd lines of the verses where you're particularly low. It's a good, mellow tone once you're above those pitches.

The bgvox maybe sound a little to close. Do you have any 'verb on them?

The big thing that sticks out to me as not right is the crashes in the chorus. There's a distinct rattling to them like a compressor is doing something wonky.
+1 on panning the drums out a little.

Overall, it's a pretty good mix; the only thing I'd consider a "must fix" is those crashes.. Catchy tune too.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

There's no specific comp on the crashes...not sure what "rattling" you're hearing form them, they're pretty low in the mix.
I do agree that they sound whishy/fizzy because of they are low...but I can certainly raise their level and bring them out more. I just thought they were getting too much in the way.

The BVox are spread hard L/R and I think there's light to no reverb on them.
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by rayc »

I prefer the darker parts - possibly because of the Iggy resemblance. It's interesting how much thinner the voice sounds on the other lines.
The music bed work really well.
I have no knowledge to apply so listen to the gurus.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Well...when it comes to "too dark" and "more sparkle"...I think it's more about listener's perspectives than it is about technical issues.
Not saying I disagree with anyone...that's why it was a test mix...
...just noting how different people hear things so differently. :)
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rammer24
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by rammer24 »

I would think that "too dark" and "more sparkle" actually mean pretty much the same thing. Or at least, I think it would indicate that people are hearing it similarly but describing it differently?

I just noticed I'm the one that said it needs "more sparkle", and what I meant was that it's "too dark". :)
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Greg_L
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Greg_L »

rammer24 wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:42 pm I would think that "too dark" and "more sparkle" actually mean pretty much the same thing.
Lol it is the same thing.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

I was just talking about when people makes those types of subjective comments...I wasn't implying the two were opposite meanings. :)

Goes to show you......how different people also read and interpret things so differently too. ;)
But it ain't no big deal. :P
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