Hurricane - Test Mix

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Greg_L
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Greg_L »

miroslav wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:37 pm
I might have also de-essed a bit too aggressive
Oh man, I bet that's a big part of it. That's exactly what it sounds like - way too aggressive de-essing. I know you know a de-esser is just a mean-ass multi-band compressor. That's gotta be part of the problem.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Well..when I do de-ess, I'm not using a *de-esser* plugin....I know what you mean about them.
It mostly just agressive EQ cuts, narrow Q in the "ess" region for my voice.

I just think I can't get enough of a good thing sometimes...:P...and I went a bit hard, plus I was probably also trying to remove the pesky nasal buzz, which I might have done during actual tracking.

Anyway, I already dug deeper into the vocal tracks, and for sure, the double compressed tracks blended...I removed the compression, and they came back to life (I was trying out the Kramer PIE comp, in combination with one of the CLA comp plugs).
I also muted one of two vocal tracks, and going with one, I can now hear some life coming back in the upper end.
I'm also going to cut harder in the mud zone, and then apply some upper-clarity to just the one track and try going with it that.

I also started looking at the actual track's words/phrases, and I can see where I did some additional high cuts...:faceplalm:
It's like once I got that ess and nasal buzz thing on my mind, I went overboard...but I did that bit of editing quite awhile ago, so didn't recall right off what I had done.

It was a mix that a started probably about a year and a half ago...then stopped, not this past spring, but back in spring of 2016...'cuz that's when my sister passed away (I didn't make any comments about it on the interwebs at the time)...and I only got back to the mixing like a couple of months or so ago ago, the new monitors came...then I stopped again to build those bass traps.
I'm really just getting reacquainted with this mix these last couple of weekends....and there was that other tune I posted a month back.
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Greg_L
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by Greg_L »

Oh man, I'm sorry about your sister. My condolences.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

It was a fucked up situation....she deteriorated over the course of about 10 years....but the last 5 were absolute shit.
A neurological degenerative condition...they said it was an unusually early onset of Parkinson's, though she didn't have the more typical obvious Parkinson's symptoms, the tremors and shakes...but PD is what they labeled it, since it was the closest thing they could diagnose.

She was early/mid 40's when they diagnosed it. Handled it well for several years with the meds they gave her...but the last 5 were a rapid decline until she was wheelchair bound, and that was fucking that.
Her system eventually shut down, though TBH, she knew her fate was sealed, and I think she just gave in when she couldn't walk anymore.
I miss her like hell. We were very close, never a bad word between us...but I was so glad that her nightmare was over when she passed.

Mind you...she was one of the most active people you would ever meet...fucking knew everyone on the planet just about. Way back she flew for Pan Am before she got her law degree, so she literally knew people all over the world.
One of the most friendliest, and warmest people you could ever meet. In a room full of strangers, she was buds with everyone in about 10 minutes.
Lived in Manhattan...the whole nine yards. So you could imagine how not being able to get around anymore just cut everything out from under her.

She got all the charisma and the social butterfly genes...which explains my situation. :P
OK...I didn't mean to spill out, but I never really talked about it before in detail on the forums...didn't see a need to burden everyone with that.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

So AFA this mix.
I dug in deeper with the vocal tracks, and I can see that the vocals at their basic state have some kind of muddly thing going on with a weird hash in spots, which is what I think is being interpreting as "too hot". It's not some preamp overload...it's something else.
Now I can't guess or remember why I kept the takes, maybe they sounded different to me at the time, maybe I was too focused on getting it all done.
Just don't recall. The last few years are a bit blurry, and much of this was tracked a couple of years back.

Anyway...I can probably spend some time jerking off :wank: and maybe fixing them to where they are pretty "acceptable".
When I pulled the compression and went back to the single vocal track, without any processing, I could hear it all lift up...but there's still stuff that would need to be fixed, and that will take time, and feel like: :headwall:
I think the song is pretty decent...I mean, it's worth doing the vocals better, rather than applying a band-aid.

I also want to reevaluate the reason I have 10 guitar tracks (5 double-tracked). :facepalm:
I think maybe that was too ambitious, and something I thought about several times as I was mixing this...but you know, you get caught up with a "plan", and then either out of stubbornness or some belief that it will work out, even when you feel like there's too much shit going on...and you don't want to toss the "plan" and start fresh.
I've gone back to the beginning with other songs...not that this one needs everything redone, but I will start with the vocals, and then go from there.
Right now, I'm not doing the song or my head any good by just sticking to the original "plan". :P

I may even break off and start mixing another one that's waiting...give this a rest for a couple of weeks, and then retrack the vocals and pick up from there.
I appreciate all the comments....they certainly made me stop and think about WTF I wanted to do with this tune. :coolstorybro:
7String
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by 7String »

Pretty cool! The snare reminds me of Fleetwood Mac. Cool ending with the feedback. I'd be tempted to put a swelling reverb on that just for fun.

Good job!
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

:)

Well...I wasn't channeling Mic's drumming, but I always like his style and sound.

Oh...I think I found what ocnor was hearing as cymbal rattling.
It's not the cymbals...'cuz when I mute everything else, there's no rattle in them
It was the toms. They had a lot of resonance-n-rumble, and there are rapid tom hits with each cymbal hit in the chorus section.
So I dried the toms out and rolled off some of the low-end...and I could also here the difference, and why it sounded like the cymbals were doing the rumble.

Other than that...I'm going just redo a couple of vocal tracks and see how that compares to the exiting track.
I want to redo the vocals so that the upper end is really clear, and then it will be easier go from there. The current vocal tracks have some kind of 6-8k "hash" that came from somewhere...?...and that makes it hard to clarify/lift the upper end on them.
TripleM
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by TripleM »

I listened to the second mix.

I thought this was very good. I really liked the crunch guitar.

The bass sounded cool. It might have just a bit too strong low end. Maybe cut some around 80-120 hz or just turn it down a db or two.

Vocal sounded good. Maybe notch it around 2500hz? It had a little bite.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

Thanks!

I've been reworking the mix, trying to make some adjustments based on some other comments...I think where I have it heading now is an improvement.
I want to tweak it just a bit more and then I will re-post a new mix version.
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itsnotkcearl
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by itsnotkcearl »

sounds good...I like the vox, read that it was a bit dark...might have been an early version as they dont sound dark to me. I know youre tweaking it but Ill throw in my two cents...the lead sounds a ball hair loud to me just at the beginning, no where else just on the intro. Theres a little keys just at the beginning that sound a little flat, maybe a touch distortion or drive on them. Thats all Ive got, playings good...Im sure your final tweaks will take care of anything else. Much better than the Albanian folk music you used to play :biggrin:

sorry to hear about your sis
Death, War, Discipline, weekends off.
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rayc
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by rayc »

Miro,
lovely description of your sister and a compassionate outline of her eventual demise due to that awful disease.
There but for the grace of, um, there but for circumstances could we all be.
Cheers
rayc
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ido1957
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by ido1957 »

As soon as it started, I thought "too much bass guitar". Maybe that's where the darkness starts. It's actually not too loud, just seems to cover too much of the lower spectrum.

As a singer, I thought Waylon right off (haven't heard a tune of yours for a bit but I do recall thinking that before). The compression is good on the vocal, it's very even throughout which I like. Maybe Bob is right - a little 8K might brighten it up a bit. I can hear the words just fine, so that sounds like some sort of eq tweak.

Performance is great - love the arrangement choices, like the feedback thingy.
People want something for nothing, they want it right now. Either they can't tell quality or don't care but feel it is important that everyone agrees with them.
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

OK...so I finally got back to this mix.
I went back reworked probably a lot of the tracks, mostly it was minor adjustments, tweaking some of the things I didn't like and considering some of the comments that were given. I probably spent the most time on the vocals, and went from a pair of tracks with some dual-compression experiment, back to a single vocal track. I then stripped out all processing and just started it from scratch.

Here's the current version....and I included the links to the two previous ones for comparison, but it's pretty obvious that the new mix sounds different.
There's also some post-mix "mastering" that I was trying out, so I could see how the mix holds up when it gets some limiting and loudness boost, though nothing super crazy. I'm starting to use the Waves Loudness Meter, so I was trying not to get too far from the target LUFS numbers, and this is about where YouTube and iTunes is normalizing loudness to...-12 to -16 LUFS seems to be safe, though TBH, I have no idea when/if I'll end up on either YouTube, iTunes or other streaming outlets...but I wanted to at least start thinking in that direction.

I still have the mix "open"...so if any comments, I will consider incorporating them in another pass or two if needed.


"Hurricane" - Test Mix (current version)

"Hurricane" - Test Mix (previous version #1)

"Hurricane" - Test Mix (previous version #2)
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paulman
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by paulman »

I really like the overall sound of this. I think the vocals could be just a tiny bit brighter, but not much. And when the drums come in full force, they seem just a little too bright. That's all I got. It sounds really nice.
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JD01
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by JD01 »

Listening to "Current Version" I generally think its really good.

Not sure about the sound of the hi hat + snare together, the hi hat seems a bit hissy and the snare is very quick and cracky - not that I am an authority on snares as you know!

In the chorus parts where there's more going on it sounds pretty thick to me and I'm strugging to make things out - someone with better ears and knowledge than me will probably say there's a build up of something somewhere.

Suggestion - the chugging guitar that comes in at about 1:45 - why not gradually close a wah or add a slow phaser to it - that's what I heard in my head while I was listening!
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miroslav
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by miroslav »

paulman wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:17 am I think the vocals could be just a tiny bit brighter, but not much. And when the drums come in full force, they seem just a little too bright.
I'm still not comfy with the brightness thing...I mean, when I listen to some of the other tracks here, I find they are overly bright/edgy to my ears, yet it seems that's how people prefer mixes these days, and when I compare to my mix, mine seems not that bright at all.

JD01 wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:49 am In the chorus parts where there's more going on it sounds pretty thick to me and I'm strugging to make things out
It was the "hurricane" concept, lots of shit flying around at the same time...:D ...with 10 guitar tracks L/R on the chorus, separation wasn't going to happen there, so more about just the force of all the guitars.

I agree with both of you on the snare getting a bit too "cracky"...I think that got pulled up by the limiting.
I was just listening to the mix VS what happens to it when I apply some "mastering" processes, and I hear a difference, so I want to step back and make some tweaks to overcome that.

I also think I can pull back on the reverb some more...just to bring those tracks more forward.

I think my biggest obstacle with this mix is the shear number of guitar tracks...but I didn't think a sparse mix would be right for this tune...so that's been my battle, making all these tracks work together while trying to maintain individuality and clarity.
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paulman
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Re: Hurricane - Test Mix

Post by paulman »

miroslav wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:25 pm
paulman wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:17 am I think the vocals could be just a tiny bit brighter, but not much. And when the drums come in full force, they seem just a little too bright.
I'm still not comfy with the brightness thing...I mean, when I listen to some of the other tracks here, I find they are overly bright/edgy to my ears, yet it seems that's how people prefer mixes these days, and when I compare to my mix, mine seems not that bright at all.
I understand completely. That's what I struggle with all the time, trying to find that balance. For better or worse, I often err on the side of too bright. I just hate to lose any of the detail that my mic picks up. When I suggest a little more brightness on your vocal, I really do mean just a tiny bit. It sounds really good.
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