Sometime Soon - new tune

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Armistice
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by Armistice »

TripleM wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:15 pm I agree the vocal is loud. But both the snare and guitars still kind of get in the way. I'd just turn down the snare. Then I might clear some mid-2Ks out of the clean-ish guitar. It just seems a bit cluttered in the mid-2Ks.

Bass sounds nice.

I like the way the guitar parts move against each other. That was cool.
Thanks Trip. That's good. I'm winding it down by degrees - you'll have listened to my last tinkering. I also thought the snare was a bit much - I seem to be forever putting up and taking it back down again, but it was hitting me in the head as I was listening to it on headphones on the way to work this morning. There's also one guitar popping out a bit that I'll poke back in.

Thanks for the ears! :wink:
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Armistice
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by Armistice »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:45 pm Vocals are still feeling pretty forward and loud at times. "Sometime soon" seemed especially loud.

I think you have a lot of room to scale back the harmony vocals without losing them. They're the main thing that tries to bury the lead vox in the chorus, so if they were down, the lead could be too without losing coherency.
Thanks VHS. I'm winding them down little by little. I have a tendency to overdo the moves sometimes, so I'm just going little bit at a time. I did a new mix after I read this and shunted them in a little, now Trip below is saying they're still a touch out there, having listened to that mix, so I'll give them another gentle push in tonight. Thanks for listening! :smiles:
Roman
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by Roman »

I don't know which version I heard, but for the record it was the one on the first page of the other site.

After a few listens, here are my comments.

1) I like the tune. A lot actually. But it wouldn't end up on any playlist of mine. Why you may ask if I like it alot? Seems like you're contradicting yourself.

Here's why. Upon the first few listens it is cool because it's fresh and different. After the third listen it becomes boring because it drags along. Which brings me to mix/production stuff.

2) Drums. This is what's making the song drag. I'd love to hear this with a good to great real drummer.

As is, the drums seem like a feather blowing around on a lazy spring day. No real direction, no purpose.

Mixwise, the intro snare is damn quiet, then gets louder. It seems all over the place.

3) I Like the vocals. I like the dry in your face sound of it.
It could use some automation as it's hard to hear at times.

On old school analog mixing systems, I know I'd be constantly riding that lead vocal fader.

4) dig the guitars but think it is a bit louder in the left than right. (Unless my ears are shot right now)

So in conclusion, I think you got a cool song, but it's screaming for a drummer to set the direction and move the tune along. (If that happened, it might end up in my playlist after all. :)
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

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Thanks for the detailed commentary, Roman. I do appreciate it. I have neither the ears nor the layout to be a great mixer so I rely heavily on people's thoughts to edge my mixes to acceptability one tweak at a time. Let me take your points in turn.

Roman wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:07 am I don't know which version I heard, but for the record it was the one on the first page of the other site.

After a few listens, here are my comments.

1) I like the tune. A lot actually. But it wouldn't end up on any playlist of mine. Why you may ask if I like it alot? Seems like you're contradicting yourself.

Here's why. Upon the first few listens it is cool because it's fresh and different. After the third listen it becomes boring because it drags along. Which brings me to mix/production stuff.
Thanks. Yeah - I'm completely bored with it mysef. In hindsight it's slower than I'd normally do, but tracking the delaying guitars was such a bitch I wasn't going to do them again. I know what you mean by dragging, and I get that it's the drums.

I will, however, miss the $0.40 from iTunes, now that you're not going to buy it for your playlist. What will I feed the children tonight? :crazy: :biggrin:
Roman wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:07 am

2) Drums. This is what's making the song drag. I'd love to hear this with a good to great real drummer.

As is, the drums seem like a feather blowing around on a lazy spring day. No real direction, no purpose.

Mixwise, the intro snare is damn quiet, then gets louder. It seems all over the place.
So would I. Alas, one must make do with what one has. So - the intro snare is a stick, not a hit - thus quiet. The rest of the snares, in a limited band, are the same throughout the song, so it's not all over the place as such, which brings me to the belief that we're talking relative volume, rather than absolute. This is one of the great challenges of MIDI drums when you're not a drummer. Knowing how real drummers operate and being able to realistically emulate that.

Interestingly, after getting relentless criticism from Robus over at HR about my overly fancy drum patterns, I deliberately straightened this one out - and now they're too plain! Aaaaargggh. Can't win. :lollers: I don't have any particular ideas as to what I might do, but I may play with them over the weekend.

Anyway, I've adjusted the hits a little in bars, to more reflect the overall volume that's going on at the time.
Roman wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:07 am
3) I Like the vocals. I like the dry in your face sound of it.
It could use some automation as it's hard to hear at times.

On old school analog mixing systems, I know I'd be constantly riding that lead vocal fader.
You'd be completely horrified if you saw the level of automation that's already applied. Comes of my not being, technically, a great singer and still struggling with getting consistent levels "to tape" with a reasonably dynamic song. Problem is that the automation that's there clearly isn't quite right, and you get into the brain filling in the spaces with your own stuff, and that's what I struggle with. Hard to be objective. One minute I think it's right, then next time it's "What was I thinking..." Still. I'll continue to tinker, after walking away for suitable periods of time to refresh the ears.
Roman wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:07 am 4) dig the guitars but think it is a bit louder in the left than right. (Unless my ears are shot right now)
I solo'd all the guitars and did some adjusting - should be better now.
Roman wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:07 am So in conclusion, I think you got a cool song, but it's screaming for a drummer to set the direction and move the tune along. (If that happened, it might end up in my playlist after all. :)
Will see what I can do. I haven't update the file yet and won't now until the weekend. Will give the drumming some further thought... I want that $0.40! :nyuk: :like:
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

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Armistice wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:06 am
Interestingly, after getting relentless criticism from Robus over at HR about my overly fancy drum patterns,

:facepalm:
Listening to that guy is definitely the start of you problems.
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by vomitHatSteve »

Greg_L wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:32 am
Armistice wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:06 am
Interestingly, after getting relentless criticism from Robus over at HR about my overly fancy drum patterns,

:facepalm:
Listening to that guy is definitely the start of you problems.
Did he describe your songs as karaoke tracks too?
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by Greg_L »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:01 am

Did he describe your songs as karaoke tracks too?
No. I don't know if he's even heard any of my songs. Not that what he thinks or says would matter anyway.
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Armistice
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by Armistice »

New mix up if anyone's interested... did some work on the drums at the start - it was dragging too much - and at various places throughout - and also continued to thin out the low/mid guitars and get the vocal to sit in better.
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by rayc »

I think it sounds good mate. Less mid mud in the guitars & the drums sounded more natural.
I was interested to read Greg's ideas on vocal levels. I'll have to try that next chance I get.
Cheers
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by ido1957 »

I haven't read any of the comments - my take - sounds like a very ambient Cat Stevens (your voice is very close to his). Lots of cool effects on the music and the drums sound great. Spots where the vocal popped out in a good way - would like to hear maybe a hard(er) compressor on them so it was more often in that area of the mix. I'm a big fan of the Cat and with a voice like yours I'd push it a bit more. :cool:
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

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rayc wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:12 am I think it sounds good mate. Less mid mud in the guitars & the drums sounded more natural.
I was interested to read Greg's ideas on vocal levels. I'll have to try that next chance I get.
Thanks ray. I sense I'm getting close... :eep: :biggrin:
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

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ido1957 wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:55 pm I haven't read any of the comments - my take - sounds like a very ambient Cat Stevens (your voice is very close to his). Lots of cool effects on the music and the drums sound great. Spots where the vocal popped out in a good way - would like to hear maybe a hard(er) compressor on them so it was more often in that area of the mix. I'm a big fan of the Cat and with a voice like yours I'd push it a bit more. :cool:
Cheers ido. And apologies for not getting to your song - I tend to stop listening to anything at all when I have a tune in the works, but I'll have a listen to it and all the others tonight, I hope.

Funny thing about the Cat - if there's one song I can totally, completely, absolutely nail, it's Father and Son. Not a dry eye in the house... :wink: I don't play it often - I need to keep the power under control... and too much weeping is bad for the carpet, but every now and then I'll trot it out if someone forces me to play acoustic covers at a party or whatever... :nyuk: :lollers:
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

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Hi, Armi - at last, I'm sitting down to listen to this properly! :biggrin:

First of all, it's plain to hear that this is a very well-crafted and thought out piece of music. The mix does have problems, though, and it's not relative levels - it's congestion, IMO. I think it's supercharged in the 150-500 Hz range and could do to be thinned. Not sure what else to add at this point because I think the recording, mixing and playing are all good. You have to carve out some separation, though. :coolstorybro:
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by Bubba »

Have a listen to this - I popped a hardware modelling eq and ReaEq onto it. I slightly scooped the mids, took a tiny bit off the 2.5k, a slight notch at 100 hz (the bass was booming on one note) and a subtle bottom end lift.

What do you think?
Sometime Soon eq.mp3
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Last edited by Bubba on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by JD01 »

Hmmm, dunno why, this just sounds better than before - I can't put my finger on what the difference is. The whole thing just sounds clearer.
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

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JD01 wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:26 am Hmmm, dunno why, this just sounds better than before - I can't put my finger on what the difference is. The whole thing just sounds clearer.
It's midrange mud getting cleared out. It's so easy to get bogged down with layered guitars, particularly as Armistice likes nice, full sounds on his guitars. The thing is, when you get five or six thick, warm guitars together it's just too dense, then there's no room for the vocal. I nearly always thin my guitars from about 300 Hz downwards, and I nearly always end up giving them a slight lift around 3-4k.

Once I'd scooped the mids a bit, the 2.5-3k that was on the vocal to get it to cut through became intrusive, so I smoothed that out a bit, too.

This is literally all I did:
.
eq.jpg
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Armistice
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

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Thanks for all that bubba.

I've applied similar changes to what you've outlined above to my mastering EQ, on top of what was already there, and reuploaded the file, with the intention of listening to them side by side at work.

The flaw in my cunning plan, however, was that I can't listen to dropbox files at work! :frown: :mad:

So I can hear yours but not mine!

I'll have to have a listen at home - but when I had a quick listen this morning, in between cleaning my teeth and putting my shoes on, it was sounding clearer, so I think you're pretty much on the money... :like:
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

Post by einstein magoo »

Finally got to listen to this. Good song! Is it just me or are some of the tom hits louder than others? I usually listen once at a modest volume level, then raise it to fill the room, wait a bit and listen again at a medium level. All three levels there are a few tom hits that are a bit abrasive in their volume. Strong attack. Overall though sounds very good!
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Re: Sometime Soon - new tune

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einstein magoo wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:57 pm Finally got to listen to this. Good song! Is it just me or are some of the tom hits louder than others? I usually listen once at a modest volume level, then raise it to fill the room, wait a bit and listen again at a medium level. All three levels there are a few tom hits that are a bit abrasive in their volume. Strong attack. Overall though sounds very good!
Thanks magoo. :coolstorybro:

I spent a bit of time with the drums this morning and discovered I had only the 10 inch tom going to the tom track (I just put all 4 on their own stereo track), so god knows where the other three were going but I could hear them. Once I put them all on the one track I reduced the volume on the two middle toms, which were poking out a little, and I had a listen just with the drums mix and it all sounded OK to me, and then with the rest of the song too, so I've updated the file again.

Getting close now.. Thanks for the ears. :biggrin:
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