Cecilia - Simon & Garfunkel

[paulman]

It's been a while since I finished any recordings other than acoustic demos for gigging. I don't know that this one is finished, because I'm still thinking about adding some more instruments and maybe doing something more with the vocals, and I only mixed this in the last couple hours so I'm sure it needs more work. This was a lot of fun to record, as I used my friend's Latin toys for the percussion. The only MIDI drum in this is the bass drum. Everything else was me frantically recording percussion parts in about an hour before I had to give the congas and guira back. I had no idea what I was going to play on any of the percussion instruments until I hit record, but now I want to challenge Will Ferrell to a cowbell duel.


NEW MIX:


Old mix:

[rayc]

I can't remember the details of the original - Did they do such a soft 1st syllable in the name?
Sometimes you do & sometimes you don't.
It sounds fresh and fun though I'd rather the drum that's off to the side to be centred as per a kick/bass drum. That's just the way it hits me in head phones.
I like the thong slap ending.

[JD01]

I don't remember the details of the original either but there's nothing sticking out as obviously wrong.

I see the same thing this as ray with the vocal though - where you're not quite committing on the first syllable. I happens on "jubilation" too. Fuck me, that's nit-picking though! I'd be well chuffed with a vocal like that.

[Bubba]

The percussion is great on this, nice panoramic sound and a good ambience. The bass could come up, as could the kick. You have got a good voice but the level of your delivery is too up-and-down. I don't think compression will help, I just think you need to sing it a bit straighter with more commitment to each word and better enunciation. The main vocal needs to come up, as does the backing vocal. In fact, I would double and pan the lower harmony vocal and bring it up relatively to the main. In the original, the twin vocals have equal billing and the whole vocal arrangement is very solid and dense. You could keep the original take, compress it really hard then retrack. Blend them together without it sounding like an obvious double track, then I think you'll be on the right lines.

Regarding the Celia/Cecilia thing, S&G use both names in their version. They start with the first line: "Celia, you're breaking my heart" then the second line starts "Oh, Cecilia, I'm down on my knees". So I think you're all right, there.

This could be really good with a bit more work.

[paulman]

Thanks guys! Bubba is right. There is no first syllable sometimes. The downbeat of every chorus is "Celia" and every other time is "Cecilia". I just retracked the vocals, putting less inflection on them (especially with the lower one). Hopefully I can stay awake long enough to play around with mixing them. Bob, a lot of your comments about the vocals are what was kicking around in the back of my brain, but you articulated it for me. Thanks! I'm never trying to duplicate the original when I record a cover, but I do want the jubilant, bright, dense sound of the vocals. I have not achieved it, not even close. I'm afraid the reason I'm having trouble getting them to sound as energetic as they should might be that I changed the key from C to Ab. I can sing it in C, but when I do it live I do it in Ab (or F if I run right into it from Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes). I do that because singing dozens of songs for two or more hours straight is already an athletic event for me, and singing Cecilia in C would just be masochistic in that situation. So anyway, this recording was originally supposed to be a demo for my acoustic duo, but I decided to flesh it out into a full recording. Thus the key of Ab, and I fear that may be why it lacks some energy. Hopefully I'm wrong, and the retrack and better mixing will do the trick.

I agree that the kick needs to come up, but I think I'm fine with the bass. Just above the "felt but not heard" level is about where I want it, I think. That may change, though. The bass is a five-string that I just acquired, and it has a HORRIBLE hum that sounds like I'm waving around a fucking lightsaber. I need to fix it, but for now I just fix it in the mix.

[paulman]

It sounds fresh and fun though I'd rather the drum that's off to the side to be centred as per a kick/bass drum. That's just the way it hits me in head phones.
I like the thong slap ending.

I was just typing here that I didn't know what drum you were talking about since the cowbell and guira are the only percussion not centered, but then I went and checked and lo and behold, the kick (which was something I did in Reason then exported as a stereo file to Logic) is panned a little bit to the right. I don't know how that happened, but it happened in Reason before I bounced it. So I'll have to go back and fix that. Great catch, Ray. Thank you!

[Bubba]

Paul, Bridge over Troubled Waters was one of my favourite albums growing up, before I discovered punk and New Wave. I have an enormous affection for those songs. I agree that the bass should be "heard but not heard" in this, but it's a little too "not heard" at the moment, in my opinion. The low end needs a stronger foundation and the vocals need to sound exultant. Whether the key you've chosen is having the biggest detrimental effect I don't know. I think you can turn it around and make a success of it, though.

[paulman]

Paul, Bridge over Troubled Waters was one of my favourite albums growing up, before I discovered punk and New Wave. I have an enormous affection for those songs. I agree that the bass should be "heard but not heard" in this, but it's a little too "not heard" at the moment, in my opinion. The low end needs a stronger foundation and the vocals need to sound exultant. Whether the key you've chosen is having the biggest detrimental effect I don't know. I think you can turn it around and make a success of it, though.

Yes, exultant is the goal. This song makes my heart want to leap out of my chest. The original, I mean. Obviously I'm doing my own thing with this, but I really want the vocals to be exactly like what you want them to be. We are of the same mind on that. Hopefully I'll have something good to bring back to you guys tomorrow.

[ido1957]

Love the percussion - it's working well in this tune. I'm listening on crappy laptop speakers so no bass (at all) but the rest is quite good.
The low vocals could come up imho as these guys were pretty even vocally from everything I remember. The inflections on the end of a few lines are very nice - those 4 or 5 note slurs.

[rammer24]

Nice version. Did you change the key? Sounds lower and/or less "belted out". You're going back and forth between the lead and the harmony, right? Like, on the first line, you're singing the higher harmony as the main line, and then you're moving down to the lower harmony on the second line? Doesn't sound bad, but maybe bring up the vocal that's behind that. I like the percussion and arangement. Sounds cool.

[paulman]

I've updated the OP with the new mix. New vocals with lots more work done on them, some edits (a capella in the beginning now), hopefully better bass and kick (though it's actually a concert bass drum sample, so I shouldn't call it a kick).

[paulman]

Nice version. Did you change the key? Sounds lower and/or less "belted out".

Thanks man. Yeah, I changed it from C to Ab. I wish I hadn't. I sing it in Ab live so I'm not killing myself, but I should have done it in the original key for this recording.

[paulman]

Love the percussion - it's working well in this tune. I'm listening on crappy laptop speakers so no bass (at all) but the rest is quite good.
The low vocals could come up imho as these guys were pretty even vocally from everything I remember. The inflections on the end of a few lines are very nice - those 4 or 5 note slurs.

Thanks! I've got the vocals much more pumped up now, and retracked.

[rammer24]

The vocal balance is better now.

[miroslav]

I like this cover...but it's always hard with covers not to directly compare to the original.
My approach with covers was to try and really do them differently...that way there wasn't as much desire to do the direct comparison.

Not sure if you were going for sameness or more originality...but it sounds quite good overall.
The one thing that seams odd to me....and maybe I just don't remember the original, and maybe you're not trying to match it...but the acoustic guitar strums feel like their not to same...there's something about how they interact with the rhythm that's not as punch/rockin' like it is on the original.
Nothing serious...just kind caught my ear.

[EDIT]

I just went and listened to the original...and I know what it is.
The percussion really kicks on the original...and the acoustic is kinda subdued.
Your version is kind a the opposite...so that's what makes the acoustic guitar strums seem different...they don't have that punchy percussion to accent along with them.

I like your "lighter" version though...well done.

[Bubba]

Wow, that's some deep sub you have going on in that bass guitar! Have you put an octave pitch shift on another track? It sounds great to me.
Further to conversations I occasionally have with Greg, I reckon you could do with another claps track (or two!) Tedious to do, but claps tracks sound all the better for it!

I've just gone to the original and I've realised why the percussion kicks so rhythmically. Some or all of it is being passed through a slapback delay on an eighth-note setting. And the kick drum is LOUD.

I do like your version, though.

[paulman]

Wow, that's some deep sub you have going on in that bass guitar! Have you put an octave pitch shift on another track? It sounds great to me.
Further to conversations I occasionally have with Greg, I reckon you could do with another claps track (or two!) Tedious to do, but claps tracks sound all the better for it!

I've just gone to the original and I've realised why the percussion kicks so rhythmically. Some or all of it is being passed through a slapback delay on an eighth-note setting. And the kick drum is LOUD.

I do like your version, though.

It's a five-string bass. I borrowed it to record Funky Monks by RHCP, and just played it on Cecilia because it was already in my hands.

Yeah, the clap definitely needs work. More tracks sounds like a great idea. I tried to really blow out the sound of it with different types of overdrive, but it just ended up being this weird squishy sound that would duck unpredictably when the "band" kicks in.

I want to do more with the percussion. I intended to really go over the top with percussion on this, but I ended up throwing it together rather quickly because I just wanted to get some tracks finished, and because I had limited time with the Latin instruments. I'm now without my computer for a week or so while it's shipped off to Apple for repairs, so I have time to reflect on what I want to do with this. I'm still considering starting over in the key of C.

[paulman]

I like this cover...but it's always hard with covers not to directly compare to the original.
My approach with covers was to try and really do them differently...that way there wasn't as much desire to do the direct comparison.

Not sure if you were going for sameness or more originality...but it sounds quite good overall.
The one thing that seams odd to me....and maybe I just don't remember the original, and maybe you're not trying to match it...but the acoustic guitar strums feel like their not to same...there's something about how they interact with the rhythm that's not as punch/rockin' like it is on the original.
Nothing serious...just kind caught my ear.

[EDIT]

I just went and listened to the original...and I know what it is.
The percussion really kicks on the original...and the acoustic is kinda subdued.
Your version is kind a the opposite...so that's what makes the acoustic guitar strums seem different...they don't have that punchy percussion to accent along with them.

I like your "lighter" version though...well done.

Thanks man! Yeah, I never try to duplicate the original. No point in that. However, I often am not making a deliberate, conscious effort to be different, if that makes sense. Once I decide to cover a song, I listen to it very little if at all. That way, it kind of becomes my own simply because I forget things about the original and end up inventing things of my own without even realizing it.

That being said, I do want the percussion to hit harder on this. My original intention was to make this ALL about the percussion, to make it bigger and more complex than the original. That kind of fell by the wayside though, and I just wanted to get it done. But after listening to it for a few days, I really want to do a lot more work on it.

[paulman]

The vocal balance is better now.

Thanks! And now I'm thinking about starting over in C. Ugh.

[JD01]

The vocal balance is better now.

Thanks! And now I'm thinking about starting over in C. Ugh.

Cool - but keep the vocal in Ab for shits and giggles.