Today's project

Your Mom loves your mixes, but are they really up to scratch? Post your tracks here and get the community's feedback to help with the spit and polish. Impress us! We don't bite.
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Greg_L
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Today's project

Post by Greg_L »

Every now and then I get a wild hair up my ass and decide to track a song from start to finish in one afternoon. This is that. I got some new mics that I haven't really pounded on too much yet. I was looking for a dense kind of raw mix. Minimal tracks, minimal tweaking. One mix.
Teenage Kicks.mp3
New mix
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Last edited by Greg_L on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rayc
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Re: Today's project

Post by rayc »

A long time fav song even if Sharkey went to lame land.
An ace cover Greg.
You did the movement between the chords, & that's a big part of the song, really well.
No nits from me, good choice, good performance, good capture & good mix.
I can't imagine the band would've spent more than an arvo on it.
How did the two legged friend cope with the guitars & thumping?
Cheers
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Re: Today's project

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Well far from being dense, the mix has incredible clarity. Teenage kicks with the cotton wool pulled out! Beautiful guitar noises. What mic setup did you end up employing?
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JD01
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Re: Today's project

Post by JD01 »

This sounds excellent Greg. Guitar tone is great too, sounds really good. What have you done with it, its just such a nice crunch.

I know you've probably chosen to do it this way, but the lead vocal seems a touch dry listening on my Senns in work. Seems really up close.
But then I always mix vocals way too wet/processed anyway.
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Re: Today's project

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rayc wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:46 am A long time fav song even if Sharkey went to lame land.
An ace cover Greg.
You did the movement between the chords, & that's a big part of the song, really well.
No nits from me, good choice, good performance, good capture & good mix.
I can't imagine the band would've spent more than an arvo on it.
How did the two legged friend cope with the guitars & thumping?
Haha thanks Ray. I used to cover this song as a young wee lad in my high school days and we always laughed about how it's pretty much musically the exact same as the Misfits "Some Kinda Hate". We'd play this song at parties and the girls really liked it. They didn't know it's an old Irish power-pop song so we'd just tell em we wrote it so we could get in their pants. Lol. I think John Peel has said that this is one of the greatest songs of all time or some shit like that. I'm glad I wrote it. :biggrin:

Anyway, Nubs does not seem to care at all about the loud noises that happen here. That's a good thing. My old wieners, RIP, absolutely hated the drums. Or maybe they just hated the drummer. :biggrin:
Bubba wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:47 am Well far from being dense, the mix has incredible clarity. Teenage kicks with the cotton wool pulled out! Beautiful guitar noises. What mic setup did you end up employing?
Thanks Bubba. I tried to make it denser than my usual shit by moving everything closer to center than I usually do. I think the handclaps might be the only thing wider than 50% panning. The original has this huge raw guitar wall that buries the drums at times. I didn't wanna go that far with it, but I liked the guitar wall idea. Also I left the drums much more raw and unrefined than I usually do. Anyway, this has a lot of my new R144 ribbon and MD421 mics on it. The guitars and bass are done with various blends of those mics.
JD01 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:03 am This sounds excellent Greg. Guitar tone is great too, sounds really good. What have you done with it, its just such a nice crunch.

I know you've probably chosen to do it this way, but the lead vocal seems a touch dry listening on my Senns in work. Seems really up close.
But then I always mix vocals way too wet/processed anyway.
Thanks JDude. I like the guitar tone too. That's just a Les Paul into my 73 Marshall Super Lead that I just fixed up, into a G12-65 4x12. Blend of the ribbon mic and 421. No EQ or nuthin. I think it's probably like 70/30 421 to R144. The 421 is the bulk of the sound with the ribbon beefing it up a little. I think I could probably use that tone on 90% of everything I do and just be done with it. It's got all of the ingredients I like in a raw Marshall guitar tone.

I think you're right about the vocals. I hear it this morning with rested ears. The flat dryness is partially intentional and partially just whatever. The original has a very up front dry vocal, so I think maybe I subconsciously did it that way? But hearing it now I think I'd definitely wanna drop em in the mix more. Maybe not wet them down, but have them sit better. That's also the ribbon mic again. I hadn't done any vocals with the ribbon mic yet. This was the first go. It seems to take compression really well and has a nice top end rolloff.
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Re: Today's project

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Cool - I haven't totally lost the plot then after worrying about my own vocals.
I'm not really sure how to describe it other than it feels on the bridge of my nose when listening on cans.

It could be that its not a reverb thing but what people were saying about my earliest mix of "Take What's Free" that there was a lot of low mid that was giving the vocal a really "solid" quality.

Anyway - you know much more about this shit than me so I'm sure you'll work it if you want to!

If I could get that tone totally unprocessed I'd be well happy!
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Re: Today's project

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JD01 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:48 am Cool - I haven't totally lost the plot then after worrying about my own vocals.
I'm not really sure how to describe it other than it feels on the bridge of my nose when listening on cans.

It could be that its not a reverb thing but what people were saying about my earliest mix of "Take What's Free" that there was a lot of low mid that was giving the vocal a really "solid" quality.

Anyway - you know much more about this shit than me so I'm sure you'll work it if you want to!

If I could get that tone totally unprocessed I'd be well happy!
I've never been one to wet down my vocals much. I've always taken the approach that if I can hear reverb or delay, then it's probably too much. Obviously sometimes for an effect it's fine, but most of the time I prefer vocals to sound dry and clear. I like it when you can't really hear any effects, but if you turn them off it's noticeable. If I revisit this mix I'll probably drop the vocals a hair but nothing else. I like the way they sound, they're not too sibilant or muddy to me, they're just maybe a little too out front.
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Re: Today's project

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Cool - I was just wondering 'cos I'm generally pretty happy with my music mixes at the moment but my vocal mixing still needs plenty of work.
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Re: Today's project

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Greg_L wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:21 am I think the handclaps might be the only thing wider than 50% panning. The original has this huge raw guitar wall that buries the drums at times. I didn't wanna go that far with it, but I liked the guitar wall idea. Also I left the drums much more raw and unrefined than I usually do. Anyway, this has a lot of my new R144 ribbon and MD421 mics on it. The guitars and bass are done with various blends of those mics.
Ah, the handclaps!I was going to mention those. They sound really good!

Those mics are working well for you, I must say.
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Re: Today's project

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JD01 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:47 am Cool - I was just wondering 'cos I'm generally pretty happy with my music mixes at the moment but my vocal mixing still needs plenty of work.
I think you just overdo everything. Like that insane EQ graph you posted. Totally crazy! You have all these tips, techniques, and virtually unlimited tools at your disposal and you just go overboard on the vocals....and that might be because you just don't like them. That's pretty normal I think for new mixers. No one ever likes their vocals at first. I've been hearing home-brew new mixes from new mixers for a long time now. I think your learning curve is pretty much right on track as far as I can tell. I was kind of in your position, but with drums. You spend all this time on guitar tones at the expense of everything else, I did that with the drums. I spent a lot of time and energy on drums drums drums more drums. So much drums. It paid off but then my other shit was lacking. I learned to balance my improvements so nothing took precedence over anything else. Now I'm pretty confident that I can do pretty much whatever I want to do.
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Re: Today's project

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Bubba wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:48 am

Ah, the handclaps!I was going to mention those. They sound really good!

Those mics are working well for you, I must say.
Thanks man. Yeah handclaps are fucking bitch. It takes so many damn tracks to get just a decent handclap sound. I'm glad they came out okay.
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Re: Today's project

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Greg_L wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:15 am
JD01 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:47 am Cool - I was just wondering 'cos I'm generally pretty happy with my music mixes at the moment but my vocal mixing still needs plenty of work.
I think you just overdo everything. Like that insane EQ graph you posted. Totally crazy! You have all these tips, techniques, and virtually unlimited tools at your disposal and you just go overboard on the vocals....and that might be because you just don't like them. That's pretty normal I think for new mixers. No one ever likes their vocals at first. I've been hearing home-brew new mixes from new mixers for a long time now. I think your learning curve is pretty much right on track as far as I can tell. I was kind of in your position, but with drums. You spend all this time on guitar tones at the expense of everything else, I did that with the drums. I spent a lot of time and energy on drums drums drums more drums. So much drums. It paid off but then my other shit was lacking. I learned to balance my improvements so nothing took precedence over anything else. Now I'm pretty confident that I can do pretty much whatever I want to do.
Cheers, I just need to give them a load more time and effort.
I'm finally starting to get used to listening to my own singing, it helps that there's no real pitchiness in the recent ones. They're still always the last thing that I do and, you're right, they don't get anything like the attention that the guitar playing and recording gets.
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Re: Today's project

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JD01 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:30 am
Cheers, I just need to give them a load more time and effort.
I'm finally starting to get used to listening to my own singing, it helps that there's no real pitchiness in the recent ones. They're still always the last thing that I do and, you're right, they don't get anything like the attention that the guitar playing and recording gets.
Vocals are unique in the sense that they're not really something that you can just turn a knob to fix. You can't just grab a different voice like you can with a guitar or snare drum. I can tune a drum differently, but my voice is just my voice. The performance part of vocal tracking is pretty much almost all of it IMO. Like with your double tracking, you can clearly hear when the pitch wavers and timing is off. It all jumps right out. Starting and stopping lines at the same time is super important. But just like any other instrument, once you get a good raw track done, the rest pretty much takes care of itself. A good performance tracked well is easy to deal with. You don't have to do a whole lot to a good vocal take.
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Re: Today's project

Post by musicturtle »

Nice man. Really cohesive sounds, nothing sounds out of place. I really like the lead vocal.


"I've never been one to wet down my vocals much. I've always taken the approach that if I can hear reverb or delay, then it's probably too much. Obviously sometimes for an effect it's fine, but most of the time I prefer vocals to sound dry and clear. I like it when you can't really hear any effects, but if you turn them off it's noticeable."


I agree with this,I like to imagine the room or hall I picture the singer in and how it would sound and try replicate that with effects.
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Re: Today's project

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Yeah, the vocals can probably come down a touch.

I feel like I'm hearing some high-end build-up or something? Like there's too much "air" if that makes sense? It seems most pronounced when the vox are going, so I suspect that nudging them down will address it.

Otherwise, it seems as solid a mix as ever.
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Re: Today's project

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musicturtle wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:59 am Nice man. Really cohesive sounds, nothing sounds out of place. I really like the lead vocal.


"I've never been one to wet down my vocals much. I've always taken the approach that if I can hear reverb or delay, then it's probably too much. Obviously sometimes for an effect it's fine, but most of the time I prefer vocals to sound dry and clear. I like it when you can't really hear any effects, but if you turn them off it's noticeable."


I agree with this,I like to imagine the room or hall I picture the singer in and how it would sound and try replicate that with effects.
vomitHatSteve wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:08 pm Yeah, the vocals can probably come down a touch.

I feel like I'm hearing some high-end build-up or something? Like there's too much "air" if that makes sense? It seems most pronounced when the vox are going, so I suspect that nudging them down will address it.

Otherwise, it seems as solid a mix as ever.
Ok thanks guys. I'm gonna try something with the vocals and re-post later.
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Greg_L wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:28 am
I've never been one to wet down my vocals much. I've always taken the approach that if I can hear reverb or delay, then it's probably too much. Obviously sometimes for an effect it's fine, but most of the time I prefer vocals to sound dry and clear. I like it when you can't really hear any effects, but if you turn them off it's noticeable.
Pretty much my feelings as well. When I do live sound for bands, I try to make them sound natural. And sounding natural is not layered with reverb and delay.

Great job on the tune. The mix, the instruments, the tones; everything sounds crisp and clear. Well done, man.
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Bill L wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:40 pm

Pretty much my feelings as well. When I do live sound for bands, I try to make them sound natural. And sounding natural is not layered with reverb and delay.

Great job on the tune. The mix, the instruments, the tones; everything sounds crisp and clear. Well done, man.
Thanks Bill. :coolstorybro:

New mix up top. Dropped the vocal a little and used different compression.
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Re: Today's project

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New mix...
I listened carefully to the hand claps - how many tracks of them did you do?
I can't recall the details from my 1st listen so can only offer that this mix is coooool. I'll have to drag out the LP now.
Cheers
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Re: Today's project

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rayc wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:05 pm New mix...
I listened carefully to the hand claps - how many tracks of them did you do?
I can't recall the details from my 1st listen so can only offer that this mix is coooool. I'll have to drag out the LP now.
Thanks Ray. I think it's like six tracks of claps. I think that's about the bare minimum I could get away with.

Tip: A good cheat way to do handclaps is to wear shorts and slap your legs. You get two "claps" at once. It stings but it works. If it weren't so cold I'd be wearing shorts and would have done that myself for this one. I hate handclaps. Rami used to layer in finger snaps too. That's also good for the pop sound in a handclap. I didn't wanna dive that far into it.
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