Sandpaper Castles 1811

Your Mom loves your mixes, but are they really up to scratch? Post your tracks here and get the community's feedback to help with the spit and polish. Impress us! We don't bite.
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rayc
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by rayc »

ido1957 wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:49 pm That Mel9 is really cool on V2 :) I would like a bit more vocal myself, the different arrangement on V2 does allow them to come out a bit more, but I'd up them. Then again I'm a singer - so I'm biased :)
Thanks Gerry. I thought the same about the vocal after I posted it.
I will do just that some time today.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by rayc »

This is a version I'm doing on the side as I'm trying to learn how to use the Mel9 properly.
The Mel9 choirs, flute & cello are on this. Using a Fender Twin sim plus spring reverb seems to work for the Mel at present.
I followed Gerry's suggestion regarding vocal level as well as taking some bottom end from the "cello" and getting rid of an accidental harmonic ping or two...
Comments or suggestions welcome.
SPC1811151017gd.mp3
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by rayc »

The original Sandpaper Castles video from MANY years ago (possibly a decade) tweaked a little for the Mel9 version...
[BBvideo=560,315]https://youtu.be/5WJabh_vid4[/BBvideo]
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by ido1957 »

Yep - the vocals are perfect level for me now. Those panned guitars are really nice clean/ringy. Great job by all....
I've forgotten my YT login so I
People want something for nothing, they want it right now. Either they can't tell quality or don't care but feel it is important that everyone agrees with them.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by ido1957 »

Yep - the vocals are perfect level for me now. Those panned guitars are really nice clean/ringy. Great job by all....
I've forgotten my YT login so I guess at some point I'll have to rebuild one. :like:
People want something for nothing, they want it right now. Either they can't tell quality or don't care but feel it is important that everyone agrees with them.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by rayc »

ido1957 wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:28 pm Yep - the vocals are perfect level for me now. Those panned guitars are really nice clean/ringy. Great job by all....
I've forgotten my YT login so I guess at some point I'll have to rebuild one. :like:
Thanks Gerry,
a good mix and vocal level within that are results of your vocal treatment.
She's in tune & doesn't need to be buried.
You were also right about the printed reverb - it didn't stop you from doing a great job on the tune up and doesn't present itself badly in the mix now either.
THANKS mate.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by Bubba »

This is pretty good, Ray. Given the limitations of what you have to work with there are some great ingredients here. I really like the tone of the singer - I couldn't bear to listen to the pitchy version. That said, I absolutely detest the sound of tuning. You seem to have mostly got away with it here. :smiles:
The actual recording of the vocal is excellent, to me - really transparent, whispering highs. Some of the singer's vocalisations put me in mind of Liz Fraser of the Cocteau Twins. The bass is lovely, the guitars work although the strumming patterns lack a bit of variety and subtlety of playing. The jury's out on the Mel9, for me! Overall, I liked it a lot.
Haggard Musician :mad:
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by rayc »

Bubba,
Gerry/Ido did the tuning - he did a grand job of avoiding the sound of it.
The original recording was done to tape with quite a cheap dynamic mic and through an Alesis Microverb. It has created problems subsequently but that combination did work for her voice.
Yep, guitars are boring but I went for dead simple and as subtle as a branding iron - that's me. Mel9? Yeah, it does sound way better than when I first recorded it and, having checked online, a lot better than other folk posting their stuff - except those one or two that can get the King Crimson sound.
Thanks for the detail.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Ray, I haven't been following the evolution of this song so i only jumped on at the SPC1811151017gd.mp3 and i dig what your doing. I am a huge sucked for cellos and if those are synthesized cellos i am impressed. Really impressed. I have a song or two that i hear cellos / strings in. Might have to sink my teeth into this Mel9 thing.

As far as that mix is concerned i don't really hear anything glaring jumping out at me man. Superb job. Clean guits are brilliantly done. Simple. I like simple.

2nd Listen. I'm sort of reeling at how smooth it feels over all. I got nothing really constructive. just praise. Good job man.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

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WhiskeyJack wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:13 am Ray, I haven't been following the evolution of this song so i only jumped on at the SPC1811151017gd.mp3 and i dig what your doing. I am a huge sucked for cellos and if those are synthesized cellos i am impressed. Really impressed. I have a song or two that i hear cellos / strings in. Might have to sink my teeth into this Mel9 thing.
As far as that mix is concerned i don't really hear anything glaring jumping out at me man. Superb job. Clean guits are brilliantly done. Simple. I like simple.
2nd Listen. I'm sort of reeling at how smooth it feels over all. I got nothing really constructive. just praise. Good job man.
Thanks Shan,
I'd have preferred to actually play my cello on this track but I'm WAY too rusty - I'll have to get my act together and use it more often.
I struggled with the Mel9 until I followed Lt Bob's advice re the compressor in front of it and did some research and applied the "classic rock" effects chain to the files. The 'cello track was the hardest - eventually working out that for me attack at 9o'clock, sustain the same & the ITB effects chain applied to that track singularly while the others copped it on the buss, (so double whammy for cello).
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by JD01 »

Somehow I'd missed this one ray so I'm going for the SPC1811151017gd mix, same as Shan.
I like the sound of the bass but I think its a touch quiet. I think the vocal is a touch quiet, although I don't think the vocal is good enough to be prominent in the mix.
Love the weird cocked wah effect on the guitar, that fits the song really well.
Is that Hammond effect the Mel9? Then it turns into a kind of organ effect? Sounds great.

I think its a really good mix though, ray. If you had the bird from The Paradise Motel singing you'd be laughing.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by rayc »

JD01 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:22 am I like the sound of the bass but I think its a touch quiet. I think the vocal is a touch quiet, although I don't think the vocal is good enough to be prominent in the mix.
Love the weird cocked wah effect on the guitar, that fits the song really well.
Is that Hammond effect the Mel9?
James,
thanks mate.
The bass - yeah I was worried about the tone etc as it's flat string & semi acoustic & I didn't want too much conflict with the "cello".
Vox kept low for those reasons .
Cocked wah - it's actually a sim I threw on to disguise the awfulness of the playing.
The Hammond - well, thta's actually Band In A Box Real Trak organ - pieced together by the program from snippets of actual playing - it sounds good - it was in stereo but the bottom end sitting over on the right was a little too heavy - I made it mono and gave it a high pass filer due to the bass gtr & "cello".
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by JD01 »

That's cool, does sound like a good Hammond sim. If you ever want any lead playing, I'd be happy to do some for you.

Have you ever looked on Kompoz for singers? You might find someone you like on there that you can collaborate with longer term instead of track by track on an ad hoc basis
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by rayc »

A new mix is in the original post. As Gerry/Ido fixed the vox I asked him to deepen his involvement by adding a solo to replace my out of tune one.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by JD01 »

Ray - I've just had another good listen to this. I still think the mix is good and the sounds that you have on it are great!
Ido's improvements are good. I was expecting something mental on the solo but it was actually quite restrained!

I was reading over the lyrics while I was listening to this, aside from the pitchiness it sounds like she's just not practised enough before singing them as it sounds like she's not familiar with them isn't sure on her delivery.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by rayc »

JD01 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:31 am Ray - I've just had another good listen to this. I still think the mix is good and the sounds that you have on it are great!
Ido's improvements are good. I was expecting something mental on the solo but it was actually quite restrained!

I was reading over the lyrics while I was listening to this, aside from the pitchiness it sounds like she's just not practiced enough before singing them as it sounds like she's not familiar with them isn't sure on her delivery.
Yep, she missed a few bits. "Just sit & play old records" is sung as "Just sit & wait for old records".
I have to wear it as is because I've not seen her in a decade and she was writing her thesis whilst being my cello tutor whilst singing my songs.
I'll have a lead solo task for you presently. I'm doing a track that is a bit Richard Hawley - Standing On The Sky's Edge so it'll need something fruit cakeish.
In the morning I need to put an audio marker at the beginning and end of the section to be frotted over and then will send it to you for consideration.
It's swimming in delays, reverbs and "texture" a bit like this one once it gets going....[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbZrjQiPrnU[/BBvideo]
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by JD01 »

Excellent - I like the thought of frotting over someone elses ideas - definitely a case for some fishtanky delay and chorus this one.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by rayc »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:00 pm So reverb-heavy vocals through an auto-tune? That's gonna be an uphill battle.
VHS,
Please return and have a listen to the excellent job Ido1957/Gerry managed to do on the vocals.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by vomitHatSteve »

Is the first mix still kicking around to A/B with?

Listening to the one listed on the OP as the most-recent, it still kinda sounds like the vocals are fighting an uphill battle. I'm not hearing missed notes as much, but there are tuning artifacts now. Plus it's super-buried.
I think as was said in the first few posts, if you want a truly excellent version of this, you'll have to retrack the vox.
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Re: Sandpaper Castles 1811

Post by rayc »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:34 pm Is the first mix still kicking around to A/B with?

Listening to the one listed on the OP as the most-recent, it still kinda sounds like the vocals are fighting an uphill battle. I'm not hearing missed notes as much, but there are tuning artifacts now. Plus it's super-buried.
I think as was said in the first few posts, if you want a truly excellent version of this, you'll have to retrack the vox.
Thanks for the listen & comments.
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