Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

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Rob Aylestone
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Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Rob Aylestone »

My band are having our first minor dispute in years. We recorded a live show from our X-32 and the intention was to have it as a live recording. Of course, I wanted to fix the loud and obvious wrong note I played, and my vocals in a few places were a little short of the mark, so I overdubbed the note, and then found something in every song I didn't like, so fixed them all, and actually played one or two songs again, DI'd so the band wouldn't know. I then passed the tracks on, and now the guitarist and keys have done all their stuff again too. The drummer is totally happy with his playing so that's original, but he's added two tracks of hi-hat tambourine, because he forgot it that night! He's doing his vocals again because of the drum spill in a couple of places. So it's now sounding great and ready to mix - BUT - we're arguing about it being live, or not. Kick, snare, OHs, hats and toms are live recorded at the gig, but now we've got everything else recorded new.

What do you think? Is calling it a live recording on or not? We were live, as not being dead, but 50% of us think its fine, the other two think it's a cheat (which I guess it is, sort of)
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miroslav
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by miroslav »

A cheat on who?

Did you guys sign some contract to deliver a 100% live album to someone?
Were fans expecting that?

What was/is the goal of your recordings...have you had any discussions/agreements about that, that were now broken because of the so-called "cheat"?

Really...I think people make WAY too much out of all that kind of stuff.
Look...in the ends, it was YOU guys playing...how much was overdubbed VS live only comes into play with some of the questions above...
...otherwise it's a legit recording.
There's no "cheat". You didn't bring in a session player to cut all your guitar tracks or faked anything else.
Just don't sell it as a 100% "live" recording, and everything else is fine. :)
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Greg_L
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Greg_L »

Yeah I wouldn't call that "live"...but then again very very few live albums are actually "live".
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Bill L
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Bill L »

Greg_L wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:57 pm Yeah I wouldn't call that "live"...but then again very very few live albums are actually "live".
This is very true. One of the few that I know of is Deep Purple's Made In Japan. Absolutely no overdubs. One of my favorite live albums is Little Feat's Waiting For Columbus. Lots of overdubs except for Bill Payne's keys and Richie Hayward's drums and vocals.

When it's my band I'm recording, the more mistakes left means more motivation to get better. I doesn't take too many times hearing yourself screw up until you learn the part you should know anyway. Just my opinion, of course.
Audio Monster
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Audio Monster »

We recorded one song live just to see what we could do with it when I got it back to my place. I kept everything we did without making any kind of alterations. What I did was, add to the performance with an extra guitar track and a cheap festival crowd sound effect. ..And now that I think of it I doubled my lead vocal in the chorus. We just added to what we came home with, that's all.


If KISS can get away with calling Kiss Alive, a live album?.....
Last edited by Audio Monster on Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Roman
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Roman »

Your music, your tunes, your performances.

Is everyone happy with the end result?
If so, then it's a win win.


In the case of Deep Purple Made in Japan, while it contained no overdubs, it wasnt a continuous audio 'documentation' of one nights show.

Technically to be completely "live", it would seem that one would have to 'document' a performance from beginning to end with no alterations of any kind.

But hey, if you are all happy with the results, who gives a shit what you call it.

Besides, if you have all the original tracks, you still have the documentation.

Oh, ps. Made in Japan was/is one of the most badass greatest live albums ever! :D
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Bill L
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Bill L »

For Made In Japan, they recorded 3 nights and used the best take of each track. I bought a cd set a while back that contained the complete shows. Richie messes up Smoke On The Water 2 of 3 times. :crazy: I still laugh when I hear it.
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Lt. Bob
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Lt. Bob »

I wouldn't call it live personally .... it was basically a studio recording using the live tracks as scratch tracks ..... just my POV.
I've heard such things where it was 'live' in a studio.

Not sure what you should call it but the important thing is to have it sound good.
If those things needed fixing for it to be as good as you want then so be it.
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rayc
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by rayc »

I'd call it Live & later.
How does it sound? can you give us a preview? IF the adulterated version works go with it. If everyone is a good enough engineer and player to have captured their replacement parts so they fit this would be an album to hawk around the recording sites as it'd be near miraculous.
Slade Alive is one of my fav LIVE LPs - it was recorded live in a big studio with an audience & no dubs. I'd LOVE to hear more recordings from that session but they either didn't do any more, they were sub sub standard or they have been sitting on a gold mine.
Lou Reed with the Velvet Underground Live 69 is completely live - 1 gig recorded to cassette so no dubs & lots of flubs but it sounds great to my ears.
The Ramones It's Alive was a single night and full performance released on the double LP with no dubs. The DVD & CD are edited. They did record 4 gigs to decide which gig was best rather than comping. The NYE gig was the best because there was more audience aggro so the band played harder.
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Greg_L
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Greg_L »

rayc wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:46 am
The Ramones It's Alive was a single night and full performance released on the double LP with no dubs. The DVD & CD are edited. They did record 4 gigs to decide which gig was best rather than comping. The NYE gig was the best because there was more audience aggro so the band played harder.
And it's fucking amazing. :coolstorybro:

To me that's the best live album ever.
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rayc
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by rayc »

Greg_L wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:51 am
rayc wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:46 am
The Ramones It's Alive was a single night and full performance released on the double LP with no dubs. The DVD & CD are edited. They did record 4 gigs to decide which gig was best rather than comping. The NYE gig was the best because there was more audience aggro so the band played harder.
And it's fucking amazing. :coolstorybro:

To me that's the best live album ever.
You're not wrong Greg. On this album nothing need to be added or removed. It just IS. Which is amazing.
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Lt. Bob
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Lt. Bob »

Waiting For Columbus is the greatest live album ever but now I'm gonna have to look up this Ramones one to see what's almost as great.

:D
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rammer24
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by rammer24 »

Bill L wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:22 pm One of the few that I know of is Deep Purple's Made In Japan. Absolutely no overdubs.
I was going to post the exact same thing. The only true live album I know of. :coolstorybro:

The Stones "Git Yer Ya Ya's Out" might also be totally live. I actually hope it is, because there are a shit ton of mistakes on it. :D
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JD01
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by JD01 »

Nirvana unplugged looks and sounds pretty live.
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Lt. Bob
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Lt. Bob »

I don't believe 'Waiting for Columbus' had overdubs
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Bill L
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Bill L »

Lt. Bob wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:08 pm I don't believe 'Waiting for Columbus' had overdubs
It does. Lots of them. Almost all of Lowell's vocals and guitar solos, a bunch of punch ins. I remember hearing that Bill Payne was pissed that Lowell spent so much time overdubbing but when heard the results he agreed with what Lowell was doing. If you're interested in hearing them unaltered, I'll dig up the torrent for the 2 Warner shows they pulled most of the album from. A couple of tracks were recorded in London (which is why Mick Taylor was a guest on A Apolitical Blues) and Mercenary Territory was actually from a sound check. And I actually confirmed the story when I picked up Bill at Logan Airport before their first gig without Richie (he was still alive but had just left the band for his cancer treatment) back in May 2010.

For what it's worth, it was Lowell's birthday yesterday. And I really miss Richie Hayward; fantastic drummer and hilarious guy to hang with.
Rob Aylestone
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Rob Aylestone »

The feeling is that it's a nice studio recording, but we wanted a live one. I've no doubt that it will, then finished be decent enough - we're just 50% too moral/not moral enough. We're not seriously falling out, but just not quite all in favour of the description. Appreciate the comments!
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Lt. Bob
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Lt. Bob »

I really don't think it's a moral issue .... ya'll aren't beholden to anyone.

Call it what you wish, my opinion was only in regard to what I'd do if it were mine.
But I don't see it as a evil vs good sorta thing.
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by vomitHatSteve »

I tend to think that any overdubs on a live album are being "dishonest" to your audience.

If the sound they're hearing in the recording didn't happen on the stage, then it's not really a "live" album.

That being said, I recognize that industry standard is to not consider that opinion at all. Do what you will, I suppose.
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Minerman
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Re: Where do you draw the line between live and studio recording?

Post by Minerman »

Interesting topic, a couple people have already beat me to the KISS "Alive" thing I was gonna mention...

I kinda straddle the fence on this myself, as obviously I'd want everything to sound as good as possible...On the flip side of that, it would be hard for me to call it a "live" album if everything wasn't tracked that way...

Dunno dude, that's a tough one...The only thing I could suggest is to record all your gigs for a month (depending on how often you gig, for me a month of gigs would be 2 nights/week Friday & Saturday), then pick/choose the best out of 'em all...

But, when it's all said & done, it's up to you guys to make that call...Depending on how many are in the band, you could take a vote...
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