Doubled lead vocals

Need a helping hand to make sure you do it right, first time? Got some good advice to pass on, so no-one makes the same mistakes you did? This is your forum.
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Armistice
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Doubled lead vocals

Post by Armistice »

I always do this, I'm just not sure I'm doing it properly/well....

Those of you that do it, what are your tips?
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Greg_L
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by Greg_L »

I think the most important part of the second vocal is starting/stopping your lines the same as the spots as the first vocal - especially if they start/end on a hard consonant sound. Same goes for backup vocals. If you do that correctly, then it's just a matter of blending the levels. I like to put my second vocal track a fair bit below the "master" vocal track. It's just for thickening. I don't want it to sound like two vocals. I ride the fader until I can just barely tell it's two vocals, then compress them both together really hard. After that, treat them combined as one take and do whatever else you wanna do to your vocal tracks.
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JD01
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by JD01 »

Same as Greg.

Most important thing is the timing.
2nd one much quieter as a thickener, I also stick more reverb on the 2nd one.
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rammer24
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by rammer24 »

I almost always double everything (sing it twice) whether I use both tracks for the whole song or not.

Not as a rule, but generally, I'll put the doubled track about 9db lower than the main for the verses. But I often bring the doubled track up to the same volume as the mian for the chorus. I'd say 90% of the time, that's how it works out for me.
Farview
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by Farview »

For stereo widening, I will sometimes have people triple track the lead vocal. Timing is the important thing.
The two extra performances will be lower than the main one and panned between 25 and 50% left and right, depending on how much space you are trying to take up.

If you pan them wide, it's more obviously three voices.
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Tadpui
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by Tadpui »

I'm curious to see what all people suggest for this. It's something that I've tried to do lots of times but I've rarely ended up with anything that I actually like. Keep the suggestions coming!
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rammer24
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by rammer24 »

A lot of people say they have trouble singing the same part twice. I don't get that. Maybe it's because I'm a drummer? But I can literally sing the same thing exactly the same way 10 times in a row. I'm not saying I'm a good singer, far from it. But that particular aspect of singing is something I find easy. Now, singing on key with emotion and a good voice, that's another story. But I do have the timing thing down. :)
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Greg_L
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by Greg_L »

rammer24 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:53 am A lot of people say they have trouble singing the same part twice. I don't get that. Maybe it's because I'm a drummer? But I can literally sing the same thing exactly the same way 10 times in a row. I'm not saying I'm a good singer, far from it. But that particular aspect of singing is something I find easy. Now, singing on key with emotion and a good voice, that's another story. But I do have the timing thing down. :)
Same here. I find it very easy to double track vocals. And since I "sing" with my own natural voice, good or bad, the vocal tracks are pretty much identical.
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by vomitHatSteve »

Most important things is really pitch, but that almost goes without saying! :D

Assuming you can match the pitch, timing IS super-critical. That is what makes the difference between sounding like one full voice and a bunch of copies of yourself singing together.

These days, I usually have two copies of the lead vocal hard-panned and turned down as much as 10 dB. And then I mute them except to emphasize words or phrases.
Farview
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by Farview »

The singing the same thing twice problem is due to the singer not being a technician. Some people sing through their emotions and therefore every performance is different. These people can be a pain in the ass. Especially at the lower levels, where they haven't been forced to consider the technical side of their art.

Vocals is one of the few instruments that you can get pretty good at without even thinking about technique. Since it's all internal, it's very easy to think of it as a feeling, rather than a set of things that you impose on an instrument to make the sound you want to hear.

But yes, no matter what instrument you play, you have two jobs.
1. Be on time
2. Be in tune.
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Armistice
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by Armistice »

Good stuff. Thanks peeps. I'm rarely that rehearsed when I'm singing that I can dash off a second identical take, although once I have my keeper main track, I'm pretty good at being able to match it in a verse at a time sort of a way. If it's something I've sung lots I'm OK, but that's not really the way I'm working at the moment.

I remember recording the other half of the duo, and Richard was one of those guys who could never sing the same thing once - one of those guys Farview's talking about - he'd close his eyes and off he'd go - doubling? Rarely an option - although we both learnt on the journey about backing vocals and lines that end with sibilants or plosives - just cut them out and no-one even notices.
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rammer24
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by rammer24 »

Just a suggestion, not something I do or endorse. You can always look into an ADT plug-in. Some of them are actually pretty good. I once tried a free one and it had enough parameters to make a pretty convincing doubled track. Never as good as the real thing, but a definite time saver.
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by TripleM »

A tip to spot the small timing problems (especially with consonants)...

1. Pan each vocal take hard to alternate sides.
2. Stick your head in between the speakers, and get up close. That way the two tracks are very wide relative to your ears.
3. Listen and write down the spots where there are timing problems. They're pretty easy to spot this way.
4. Go back and punch them out.

Lots of times, it's easy to miss a small timing error, only to find it days later. Then the mic isn't where it was before, the mic pre isn't set up like it was before, your voice sounds different today than it did the day you sang it. etc. Do those steps above, and you'll end up with fewer timing mistakes.

Works for doubled guitars too.
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by TripleM »

Oh and then pan them back to the center when you're done.
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rammer24
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by rammer24 »

It's not that important for me to make it THAT pefect. It's the slight imperfections that make a doubled track what it is (vocals or guitar). In my opinion, if I have to go to that extent just to hear an imperfection, then it's way beyond good enough.

I'm not questioning your method, Trip. I just don't think a doubled track needs to be 100% precise. I know Ian Gillan, considered by some to be one of the best rock vocalists ever, liked doubing his vocals, but deliberately made it a little loose.
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by TripleM »

I never said I wasn't anal. :)
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ido1957
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by ido1957 »

I have a question - I use parallel compression on vocals (a relatively new thing I started using in the past year or so). It sounds like when you guys double your vocals you're doing something very similar in that the doubled vocal is compressed and lower in volume.
Any thoughts on similarities/differences/pros and cons of either?
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rammer24
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by rammer24 »

TripleM wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:35 pm I never said I wasn't anal. :)
:robus: :coolstorybro:
ido1957 wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:36 pm I have a question - I use parallel compression on vocals (a relatively new thing I started using in the past year or so). It sounds like when you guys double your vocals you're doing something very similar in that the doubled vocal is compressed and lower in volume.
Any thoughts on similarities/differences/pros and cons of either?
Funny, I just started parallel compressing about 3 songs ago, too. I don't think it's the same thing. I'm actually doing both: Doubling my vocal and bringing the doubled track in about 9db lower...and I'm also parallel compressing the main track to help it cut through. Compressing the hell out of a doubled track isn't the same as parallel compressing the main track because it is a different track and it's not exactly 100% synced. It probably is sort of similar in the sense that you're sliding a very compressed track in under the main, but it's not quite the same.
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Greg_L
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by Greg_L »

ido1957 wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:36 pm I have a question - I use parallel compression on vocals (a relatively new thing I started using in the past year or so). It sounds like when you guys double your vocals you're doing something very similar in that the doubled vocal is compressed and lower in volume.
Any thoughts on similarities/differences/pros and cons of either?
I don't know about pros/cons, but I don't parallel compress. I stack the two vocal takes, drop one about 6-9db, and compresses the bujeezus out of both of them together.
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rayc
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Re: Doubled lead vocals

Post by rayc »

I've used a variation of the Motown exciter but where the exciter clones the vox I ask for a 2nd when I can get it, compress the hell out of it, add some sparkle and cut the bottom end with EQ then blend at a level that adds something good to the main.
I haven't used it for the last 3 tracks as they were all single mains.
Cheers
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