Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Need a helping hand to make sure you do it right, first time? Got some good advice to pass on, so no-one makes the same mistakes you did? This is your forum.
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WhiskeyJack
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Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Hey gang,

I am going to rerecord an really poorly played acoustic track tonight and replace it with a better played one. i am looking for some new ideas or tried and tested techniques from ya'll

Currently my set up is usually a Blue Spark Condenser about +/-4 inches off the 12th fret angled slightly towards the sound hole. but just so slightly. I track in the kitchen typically but i might just leave the computer in the basement given time constraints. I don't like the acoustics in room but it is what it is.

I have tried a dual mic set up with the above mentioned mic placement and also a SM57 about a foot off the sound hole closest to the bridge but i rarely if ever end up using that track casue 99% of the time it just sounds like crap.

Any tips here ? Anyone? :coolstorybro:
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by muttley »

Good acoustic guitars never sound good when recorded, a/ with a single mic, b/ with a mic anywhere near the soundhole.

I get the most consistent results with a decent condenser placed about a foot away from the bridge plate and angled away towards the end block. Another placed over the shoulder angled towards the neck. Room mics also help so if you have them try them in various places to add colour. Keep in mind that an acoustic guitar sounds awful in reality if you get too close to it. So mic up as far off as possible.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

muttley wrote: โ†‘Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:52 pm Good acoustic guitars never sound good when recorded, a/ with a single mic, b/ with a mic anywhere near the soundhole.

I get the most consistent results with a decent condenser placed about a foot away from the bridge plate and angled away towards the end block. Another placed over the shoulder angled towards the neck. Room mics also help so if you have them try them in various places to add colour. Keep in mind that an acoustic guitar sounds awful in reality if you get too close to it. So mic up as far off as possible.
I can only do two mics. i should point that out too. All i have for an interface is a peasant Scarlett 2i2.

I do think i should move the mics off further. one thing i have noticed about the Taylor i have is that it is very loud and can hurl it;s sound around a room quite nicely. It's part of the reason i ask. my other two acoustics can't even hold a candle to this Taylor. I don't know that i have recorded it with any mic's yet. A few camera phone vids but that doesn't count.

What is the shoulder and what is the end block. forgive my ignorance mutt.

Anyways i will look into the placements and give them a try.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by muttley »

Your shoulder. Get a boom stand and place the mic over your shoulder pointing toward the neck at about 45 degrees toward the floor.

End block is the very end of the guitar where the strap button is.

Getting good acoustic recordings is all about experimenting. What you hear from an acoustic guitar is the sum parts of the room the guitar, and the player. Steer clear of the soundhole as the air moving there is very messy and not at all representative. Very little audible sound comes from that part of the guitar. The purpose of a soundhole is to free up the movement of the top, not to let sound out. What you hear when listening to an acoustic guitar is the vibrations in the top plate and the reflections from those transmitted sound waves. More so than pretty much any other instrument the acoustic guitar is a sum of its parts and its environment. Experiment.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by SweetDan »

I read somewhere (and then tried it myself) that frequencies around 800hz from an acoustic guitar make up the "cheap, boxy" sound...so try cutting somewhere around there in the mix. Maybe even try it on your scratch tracks before you re-record, just to hear what difference it might make.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by Armistice »

A lot depends upon the sonic qualities of the guitar as well. I've never used a mic down the lower end of a guitar - but I'm recording an Australian built Maton Messiah which doesn't really sound like a Taylor or a Martin or a Yamaha or anything else and has particularly frequency characteristics which I've had to learn to accommodate. I primarily recorded acoustic guitars for 3 albums worth of instrumental music, so this is something I've had plenty of time to learn the hard way about!

So what muttley says about experimentation is key - you'll need to find what works in the particular room for the particular guitar with the particular mics you have. Also, as he says, 4 inches is too, too close. I'm rarely inside a foot and that's for fingerpicking - strumming/plectrum hybrid stuff in a rock mix I'm up to 18 inches away - the sound comes together better if you're further away.

I'd tend to a drier room than a kitchen, without having seen either of your options - again, depends upon the end location of the track in the mix.

I don't use the over the shoulder technique but lots do and it works for them - I tend to have an SDC pointing at about the fret/body join and a second one higher (yep) up, but that's my guitar and absolutely not for everyone. One close mic and a room mic may also work, again, depending upon the mix.

The other point I'd make is that a lot of acoustic guitar recordings are crap because people can't play acoustic guitar very well - especially primarily electric guitarists who are just picking it up to add some colour to a track, or to do the obligatory album ballad. God I've heard some heavy handed squeaky acoustic tracks from really good electric guitarists.

So - too late now, but practice, practice!

Also:

(1) Control your breathing if what you're doing is quiet - breath noises on the close mic are very possible if you don't - again, in a busy mix, not such a problem but if it's an acoustic track, it can be a thing

(2) Wear soft clothes to avoid rustling noises

(3) Sit down and jam the fucking instrument into the corner of the couch if that's going to anchor it and stop casual movement - don't feel you have to stand up - doesn't work on leather couches, of course, only fabric

(4) Watch for feet tapping and shit like that - I always need to get pretty "zen" to do good fingerstyle stuff as it's so easy to make extraneous noises on such a quiet source

(5) Squeaking - wash your hands, then soak them in warm to hot water for a minute between takes and your skin softens and you get way less squeaking. The best way to deal with acoustic guitar squeak is not to make it - and this is part of how to do that. The other bit is just get good at what you're playing

(6) Watch for pick strike noises - again, a technique thing

(7) Keep your headphone cord out of the way as you don't want that slapping against the guitar body either - I always run it back over my shoulder

That's enough to remember for now. Like everything else - it's practice, both at the piece and at the recording aspects, that make perfect. Good luck.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by Bubba »

Excellent advice, Armi. :)
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by muttley »

Armistice wrote: โ†‘Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:09 pm A lot depends upon the sonic qualities of the guitar as well. I've never used a mic down the lower end of a guitar - but I'm recording an Australian built Maton Messiah which doesn't really sound like a Taylor or a Martin or a Yamaha or anything else and has particularly frequency characteristics which I've had to learn to accommodate. I primarily recorded acoustic guitars for 3 albums worth of instrumental music, so this is something I've had plenty of time to learn the hard way about!

So what muttley says about experimentation is key - you'll need to find what works in the particular room for the particular guitar with the particular mics you have. Also, as he says, 4 inches is too, too close. I'm rarely inside a foot and that's for fingerpicking - strumming/plectrum hybrid stuff in a rock mix I'm up to 18 inches away - the sound comes together better if you're further away.

I'd tend to a drier room than a kitchen, without having seen either of your options - again, depends upon the end location of the track in the mix.

I don't use the over the shoulder technique but lots do and it works for them - I tend to have an SDC pointing at about the fret/body join and a second one higher (yep) up, but that's my guitar and absolutely not for everyone. One close mic and a room mic may also work, again, depending upon the mix.

The other point I'd make is that a lot of acoustic guitar recordings are crap because people can't play acoustic guitar very well - especially primarily electric guitarists who are just picking it up to add some colour to a track, or to do the obligatory album ballad. God I've heard some heavy handed squeaky acoustic tracks from really good electric guitarists.

So - too late now, but practice, practice!

Also:

(1) Control your breathing if what you're doing is quiet - breath noises on the close mic are very possible if you don't - again, in a busy mix, not such a problem but if it's an acoustic track, it can be a thing

(2) Wear soft clothes to avoid rustling noises

(3) Sit down and jam the fucking instrument into the corner of the couch if that's going to anchor it and stop casual movement - don't feel you have to stand up - doesn't work on leather couches, of course, only fabric

(4) Watch for feet tapping and shit like that - I always need to get pretty "zen" to do good fingerstyle stuff as it's so easy to make extraneous noises on such a quiet source

(5) Squeaking - wash your hands, then soak them in warm to hot water for a minute between takes and your skin softens and you get way less squeaking. The best way to deal with acoustic guitar squeak is not to make it - and this is part of how to do that. The other bit is just get good at what you're playing

(6) Watch for pick strike noises - again, a technique thing

(7) Keep your headphone cord out of the way as you don't want that slapping against the guitar body either - I always run it back over my shoulder

That's enough to remember for now. Like everything else - it's practice, both at the piece and at the recording aspects, that make perfect. Good luck.
All this is good advice. I like a bit of "live" noise, finger etc but nasel breathing is the worst. Play with your mouth open..;)
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

You guys are gems!! thank you so much. I may go so far as to post a few tones of what i come up with as i a fear the finished product could get deraield a little bit well into the new year.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by Greg_L »

I put a large-diaphragm condenser mic at my forehead pointed straight down at the guitar. For the 4 times in my life I've actually wanted to record an acoustic guitar, it worked great.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Had to abort mission this evening. Duty called. :(
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by vomitHatSteve »

Armistice wrote: โ†‘Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:09 pm A lot depends upon the sonic qualities of the guitar as well. I've never used a mic down the lower end of a guitar - but I'm recording an Australian built Maton Messiah which doesn't really sound like a Taylor or a Martin or a Yamaha or anything else and has particularly frequency characteristics which I've had to learn to accommodate. I primarily recorded acoustic guitars for 3 albums worth of instrumental music, so this is something I've had plenty of time to learn the hard way about!

So what muttley says about experimentation is key - you'll need to find what works in the particular room for the particular guitar with the particular mics you have. Also, as he says, 4 inches is too, too close. I'm rarely inside a foot and that's for fingerpicking - strumming/plectrum hybrid stuff in a rock mix I'm up to 18 inches away - the sound comes together better if you're further away.

I'd tend to a drier room than a kitchen, without having seen either of your options - again, depends upon the end location of the track in the mix.

I don't use the over the shoulder technique but lots do and it works for them - I tend to have an SDC pointing at about the fret/body join and a second one higher (yep) up, but that's my guitar and absolutely not for everyone. One close mic and a room mic may also work, again, depending upon the mix.

The other point I'd make is that a lot of acoustic guitar recordings are crap because people can't play acoustic guitar very well - especially primarily electric guitarists who are just picking it up to add some colour to a track, or to do the obligatory album ballad. God I've heard some heavy handed squeaky acoustic tracks from really good electric guitarists.

So - too late now, but practice, practice!

Also:

(1) Control your breathing if what you're doing is quiet - breath noises on the close mic are very possible if you don't - again, in a busy mix, not such a problem but if it's an acoustic track, it can be a thing

(2) Wear soft clothes to avoid rustling noises

(3) Sit down and jam the fucking instrument into the corner of the couch if that's going to anchor it and stop casual movement - don't feel you have to stand up - doesn't work on leather couches, of course, only fabric

(4) Watch for feet tapping and shit like that - I always need to get pretty "zen" to do good fingerstyle stuff as it's so easy to make extraneous noises on such a quiet source

(5) Squeaking - wash your hands, then soak them in warm to hot water for a minute between takes and your skin softens and you get way less squeaking. The best way to deal with acoustic guitar squeak is not to make it - and this is part of how to do that. The other bit is just get good at what you're playing

(6) Watch for pick strike noises - again, a technique thing

(7) Keep your headphone cord out of the way as you don't want that slapping against the guitar body either - I always run it back over my shoulder

That's enough to remember for now. Like everything else - it's practice, both at the piece and at the recording aspects, that make perfect. Good luck.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Meanwhile many months later:

I tried using my music room instead of my kitchen (because i was lazy and didn't really want to drag all my shit upstairs with a busted wing) and i also used two condenser mic set up instead of my usual just one and i am really friggin pleased with the results i got after moving the mics a bunch. Now i haven't run any compression or post mixing to it yet so some of the finer details that can really muck up a good acoustic track haven't come out to say hello yet. I will post up some sounds here in the coming days as i work on the playing and tuning. I think i need a neck adjustment as my little 'e' string is not cooperating and wildly out of intonation. I was going to also try the shoulder mic set up and gregs forhead set up but there are tuning issues present so i wasn't going to spend all that time setting up the mic positions if my takes are garbage anyways.

This was all more an exercise in "can i use this shitty room or not, instead of moving everything into the kitchen" And the answer was yes. Yes i can use my shitty room.

Moving on: I think i already know the answer to this but i am going to ask it anyways. Does anyone here use compression on an acoustic track upfront on the recorded signal into the DAW? I see reaper does have a spot you can do this but in my mind i would rather just have a raw, naked, untouched, as is audio file that can be compressed after the fact to avoid a permanently imprinted compression on the track? I sort of thought it might be nice to have a slight little bit of comp on the acoustic tracks to just sort of tame any wongo transients on the way in to save a bit of time later on down the road but i am not sure if that is a good practice to get into or if it is my trying to be lazy and take shortcuts?

Really appreciate everyone advice. Armi's 7 commandments are great tips!
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by SweetDan »

WhiskeyJack wrote: โ†‘Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:10 pm ...didn't really want to drag all my shit upstairs with a busted wing...
:confused:

Inquiring minds want to know: how did you play the guitar, then? :D
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

SweetDan wrote: โ†‘Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:34 pm
WhiskeyJack wrote: โ†‘Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:10 pm ...didn't really want to drag all my shit upstairs with a busted wing...
:confused:

Inquiring minds want to know: how did you play the guitar, then? :D
I have quite a bit mobility and dexterity with that arm and stuff now so in some ways it is like it never happened. I haven't worn the sling in probably a week now? However, i have 0 strength still and some motions / movements and tasks are still agonizing. I.e. if i grab the laundry basket the right way i can pick it up easily and take it downstairs with no issues. If i try to open a jar of raspbery jam and the lid let's go to quickly it feels like i got zapped by a 200W outlet right up my arm and into my shoulder.

I don't open my own jam anymore. :like:

So some simple strumming and picking and light playing is finally achievable by i am not doing any behind the head shredding. :metal:
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by musicturtle »

There are some really good tips in this thread.

Looking forward to hearing the results WJ
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by Armistice »

WhiskeyJack wrote: โ†‘Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:52 pm

I don't open my own jam anymore. :like:
I'm not sure I would want to continue to live if I couldn't get at the jam... :frown:
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by WhiskeyJack »

Armistice wrote: โ†‘Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:20 pm
WhiskeyJack wrote: โ†‘Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:52 pm

I don't open my own jam anymore. :like:
I'm not sure I would want to continue to live if I couldn't get at the jam... :frown:
It is 2018 and my wife can open the jam for her husband.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by Tadpui »

Good to hear that you're on the mend, and that you're experimenting with acoustic guitars!

For what it's worth, I don't get too fancy with miking an acoustic. A single SDC or LDC out front of me, 8"-12" away, pointed at the neck/body joint. I play a huge, loud dreadnought, so I've gotta stay away from the soundhole or else it gets really boomy in a hurry.

The main variables for me are mic choice and mic distance. I'll use an SDC if the acoustic is going to live in a dense mix with lots of other stuff. The heightened transient response adds some spiky string percussion that'll help it stand out. If it's a more sparse mix, I'll use an LDC to capture more of the actual sound of the instrument.

And mic distance is just to control the direct-to-room ratio. In a good room, I'd back up the mic and get some ambiance. In a not so good room, I'd get it as close as possible before it falls apart due to proximity effect.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitars.

Post by jonny deep »

WhiskeyJack wrote: โ†‘Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:22 pm
Armistice wrote: โ†‘Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:20 pm

I'm not sure I would want to continue to live if I couldn't get at the jam... :frown:
It is 2018 and my wife can open the jam for her husband.
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