Acoustic Treatment

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Lt. Bob
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by Lt. Bob »

I avoid the need for room treatment by not recording ....... also having shelves of records on every wall
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JD01
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

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That portable treatment thing arrived last week and I had time to put it together last night - its actually really chunky and robust. Looks like it will help a bit, me and mrs were just singing into it in the room last night while we were having a cup of tea and it seemed to make a fairly big difference actually.
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musicturtle
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by musicturtle »

JD01 wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:26 am That portable treatment thing arrived last week and I had time to put it together last night - its actually really chunky and robust. Looks like it will help a bit, me and mrs were just singing into it in the room last night while we were having a cup of tea and it seemed to make a fairly big difference actually.
Did you get the sE one or the Essential Audio?
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JD01
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

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musicturtle wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:44 am
JD01 wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:26 am That portable treatment thing arrived last week and I had time to put it together last night - its actually really chunky and robust. Looks like it will help a bit, me and mrs were just singing into it in the room last night while we were having a cup of tea and it seemed to make a fairly big difference actually.
Did you get the sE one or the Essential Audio?
The one I posted up the picture for. I'm going to record some properly loud shouty vocals this weekend so we'll see how well it works.
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JD01
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

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Here it is
20180201_200830.jpg
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Minerman
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by Minerman »

JD01 wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:46 am I'm going to record some properly loud shouty vocals this weekend so we'll see how well it works.
It will probably help a lot Jdude, but don't forget the mic will pick up what's behind you too...I actually used the biggest part of the rockwool from my panels in the last ISO cab build, & it's made a big difference (for the worse)in my room...I've decided to use what panels I have left behind me (hung in an open closet), with a couple of panels behind my mic, like a bigger version of your reflection filter until I can build some more panels (with some basstraps this time too)...
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JD01
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

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Minerman wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:55 pm
JD01 wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:46 am I'm going to record some properly loud shouty vocals this weekend so we'll see how well it works.
It will probably help a lot Jdude, but don't forget the mic will pick up what's behind you too...I actually used the biggest part of the rockwool from my panels in the last ISO cab build, & it's made a big difference (for the worse)in my room...I've decided to use what panels I have left behind me (hung in an open closet), with a couple of panels behind my mic, like a bigger version of your reflection filter until I can build some more panels (with some basstraps this time too)...
Curtains behind me, mate!
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Minerman
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by Minerman »

JD01 wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:08 pm
Minerman wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:55 pm
It will probably help a lot Jdude, but don't forget the mic will pick up what's behind you too...I actually used the biggest part of the rockwool from my panels in the last ISO cab build, & it's made a big difference (for the worse)in my room...I've decided to use what panels I have left behind me (hung in an open closet), with a couple of panels behind my mic, like a bigger version of your reflection filter until I can build some more panels (with some basstraps this time too)...
Curtains behind me, mate!
Cool man...


I have a question about bass traps...The room I use only has 2 corners I could actually place 'em in...
I've read about folks putting 'em around the ceiling, like this:


Anybody have any experience and/or thoughts/suggestions about using bass traps like this???
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Greg_L
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by Greg_L »

That's a lot of bass traps! I don't know if that many traps are necessary, but I guess it won't hurt?
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Tadpui
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by Tadpui »

JD
Awesome, let us know how that thingy works! I was going to buy one with YT proceeds but my AdSense account seems goofed up and I haven't received a check for a while. It's next on my list though.

Miner
I'd say go for it if you've got the time and resources. All of those places where 2 boundaries meet are good for trapping. If you've found that you're having low end problems and haven't been able to compensate for the problems, then in a small room the more trapping the merrier. If you haven't had low end problems, then screw it...spend the money on hookers and guitar strings :D
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JD01
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

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Tadpui wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:49 am JD
Awesome, let us know how that thingy works! I was going to buy one with YT proceeds but my AdSense account seems goofed up and I haven't received a check for a while. It's next on my list though.
Tad, the results for me at least were pretty miraculous. Much less crap getting into my vocal tracks. Listening to them without any reverb on them solo'd they sounded genuinely dry and I could judge my reverb in relation to my guitars really easily. I've found before (and you've probably noticed this) that my vocal tracks add a kind of very low level droning hum in the background (like being in a hotel near a motorway).

Criticisms - its actually a pretty heavy piece of kit, I've found the best way to set it up is using a small mic stand that you'd usually use for miking up a cab and then sticking the mic stand on a table.

Its not that big - I was occasionally knocking the edges of it with my shoulder when I was tracking and I can hear one of those "pops" in my most recent recording.

Was thinking about the physics of it 'cos I wanted it to be like a fucking cupboard I could get my head into, but that's not really the point. Its small, and protects the mic from a lot of unwanted reflections around the room, which I suppose is the point. I also set it up facing the curtains of my recording room. So it works well for what its designed for. What its not is a way of cutting down volume in the room - if you want to be not disturbing the neighbours & protecting your own dignity while you fuck up take after take, this isn't the right piece of kit.
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rayc
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by rayc »

Well done James. When I have mine in use the back of the singer is to a book case filled with books of all sorts & sizes. That cuts down on any direct reflection as the difference in depth on the shelf helps break up & diffuse the waves.
They are heavy things. Mine is set up on a mic stand - but it's a solid one with no boom - just straight up. It took some experimentation sliding the mic forward & back on the fitting to get the best result but now it's sorted it's set up & stands there staring at me accusingly.
They aren't the best answer but they certainly improve things in a standard rectangular room.
Now your voice is working better & you're capturing it better plus have an amp/cab set up that's better.
Cool.
Cheers
rayc
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JD01
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

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rayc wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:30 am Well done James. When I have mine in use the back of the singer is to a book case filled with books of all sorts & sizes. That cuts down on any direct reflection as the difference in depth on the shelf helps break up & diffuse the waves.
They are heavy things. Mine is set up on a mic stand - but it's a solid one with no boom - just straight up. It took some experimentation sliding the mic forward & back on the fitting to get the best result but now it's sorted it's set up & stands there staring at me accusingly.
They aren't the best answer but they certainly improve things in a standard rectangular room.
Now your voice is working better & you're capturing it better plus have an amp/cab set up that's better.
Cool.
My curtains are heavy and all wavey - its not idea having a sheet of glass right behind the curtains though...

I'm really hoping that if/when I get the H&K amp that the emulated out will be good enough for a keeper take - then I get a lot of tracking done late at night/in the morning so I can devote more of my noise making time to vocals.
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Minerman
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by Minerman »

Sorry to have taken so long to reply to this, I actually forgot I'd even asked...
Greg_L wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:10 am That's a lot of bass traps! I don't know if that many traps are necessary, but I guess it won't hurt?
Thanks dude, I was just referring to their placement, not the amount of 'em & was wondering if anyone else had went this route...
Tadpui wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:49 am I'd say go for it if you've got the time and resources. All of those places where 2 boundaries meet are good for trapping. If you've found that you're having low end problems and haven't been able to compensate for the problems, then in a small room the more trapping the merrier. If you haven't had low end problems, then screw it...spend the money on hookers and guitar strings :D
Thanks man, I know there can be the "not enough" thing, but I'm not sure if "too much" would have any negative results...

Here's how my room is setup:
room setup.png
I can put traps in 2 corners (the red triangles in the pic), but the way I have everything set up, both are on my left facing my monitors, one behind the desk/monitors, & one behind me on the "far" wall...There's no way I can trap the corners to the right because of the door & the closet

I've made a few panels before & they made a huge difference, with the shitty room sound/reflections, but I've never fucked with bass traps...

The window is pretty much where the first reflection point would be & there's really no way I can fix this...I did try to put my desk in front of the window...
But as soon as I rolled it over there I had about 3 cats playing "trampoline" on it..:lollers:..
I know, I know, :facepalm: but these cats are like my kids so getting rid of them isn't an option, & there's nothing I can do to keep 'em off of it...And yes, it's my fault these fuzzy little dudes are the way they are, but what's done is what's done...

What I was thinking is go ahead & trap the 2 corners I mentioned, then trap the ceiling/wall to my right & my left (purple rectangles in the pic)...

But there is a little offset in the wall where the closet is that's about 10" or so wide...I'm not sure it would help by trading the ceiling/wall traps over there for trapping that little offset...

So do you guys think I should do the left/right thing, do the front/back, or just go all out & trap everywhere around the entire room???
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

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I think you should put the desk in front of the window and to hell with those damn cats. Make em learn. Trap the corners on the window wall. Then either trap the ceiling/wall behind you, or build traps as gobos so you can close the door and trap those corners for mixing. You can move them to open the door and/or use the closet.
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Tadpui
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

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Greg_L wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:26 am I think you should put the desk in front of the window and to hell with those damn cats. Make em learn. Trap the corners on the window wall. Then either trap the ceiling/wall behind you, or build traps as gobos so you can close the door and trap those corners for mixing. You can move them to open the door and/or use the closet.
Yeah, all of this. Rotate the setup 90 degrees and trap the front corners. I'd bet that'll do 75% of what needs to be done. The rest is gravy. I use my gobos all the time, they've become really versatile tools for controlling mid and hi reflections. And I can get them out of the way when I need to tidy up the room for purposes other than recording...or just when I'm feeling too claustrophobic and need to open up the space.
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Minerman
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

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Greg_L wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:26 am I think you should put the desk in front of the window and to hell with those damn cats. Make em learn.
Thanks dude, but that's the whole thing, I'd never get 'em to learn, they're old & stubborn just like me, except for Super Pooper...I did have the desk there for a couple of days, but I spent more time running 'em off than anything, & I can't watch 'em 24/7, so I've came to the conclusion it ain't gonna happen...I know it's my fault, but again, what's done is done...
Greg_L wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:26 amTrap the corners on the window wall. Then either trap the ceiling/wall behind you, or build traps as gobos so you can close the door and trap those corners for mixing. You can move them to open the door and/or use the closet.
I like the idea of the gobos that I can move out of the way when not in use...
Tadpui wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:04 am Yeah, all of this. Rotate the setup 90 degrees and trap the front corners. I'd bet that'll do 75% of what needs to be done. The rest is gravy. I use my gobos all the time, they've become really versatile tools for controlling mid and hi reflections. And I can get them out of the way when I need to tidy up the room for purposes other than recording...or just when I'm feeling too claustrophobic and need to open up the space.
Thanks Tad, you & Greg both just confirmed the gobo thing...I've thought about doing that, but only for the 2" thick panels like I had before...

I think I'll trap the window wall corners, then the "front" & "back" ceiling/walls to start with...I may even end up trapping the ceiling/walls over the door & closet too...

How thick do you guys think I should make my traps, could I use a 2" thick panel, or should I make 'em thicker???
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:14 pm

How thick do you guys think I should make my traps, could I use a 2" thick panel, or should I make 'em thicker???
Go thicker for bass traps. Mine are 4" and that's probably near the minimum.
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by Minerman »

Greg_L wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:14 am
Minerman wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:14 pm

How thick do you guys think I should make my traps, could I use a 2" thick panel, or should I make 'em thicker???
Go thicker for bass traps. Mine are 4" and that's probably near the minimum.
:like:
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Re: Acoustic Treatment

Post by rayc »

When I was resorting my room I had a similar situation to yours MM. I was advised to do a 90 and put the monitor set up in front of the window with the mixer position looking OUT of the room.
I was skeptical but did it and the improvement from that 1st step was AMAZING.
you can put traps for the door and closet on a rope so they can be pushed aside or hooked up out of the way when not in use so that you can get in n out etc.
Cheers
rayc
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